Wiz or Sorc or....Any advice Please!

Maximuz · Post by **Maximuz** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:03 am

So, here i am again...

Starting a new char.
But should i play a Sorc and/or lvl up as Red Dragon Des?
Or play a pure Sorc?

Maybe a Wiz and Pale Master?Or maybe a pure Wiz!

So many to choose from.....

Anyone got any good ideas or suggestions?

I´m open to for any thougts and ideas!

Thanks ya´ll!

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:01 am

If you play sorcerer, only go for RDD after lvl 20.
Never tried a palemaster/wizzard myself, but a pure sorcerer is very powerfull!

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:47 am

Personally - I have an affinity for Sorcerers, but I don't like the RDD prestige class myself. (Although others do).

The main difference between the two classes is how their spell casting works. This is descriped in the manual, so I will not go to deep into it here.
Just know that a wizard knows more spells and a sorcerer can cast fewer known spells more often.
Basically - I'd say that the wizard is likely more powerfull *if* he has prepared proberly.
The Sorcerer is more allrounded spellcaster, because he dosen't have to memorize spells, but again - he also knows fewer spells.

Besides the mechanics of spell casting, there are a few other more subtle differences.

Skills....
A wizard will gain many more skillpoints then a sorcerer, because a wizards main attribute is intelligence, and this governs skillpoints. This means more points to put into concentration, lore, spellcraft and others as you wish (Tumble

).

Also a wizard gains access to bonus feats usable for meta-magic.

But personally - I still think the Sorcerer is the more versatile spellcaster, but overall the Wizard proberly has most things going for him. This is of couse always somewhat subjective, but bonus-wise a wizard gains more.
But I've never been able to adapt to a wizard in NwN for some reason.

I've not tried out the Palemaster prestigeclass, so I can't comment on that one. But from now on - I'll stay away from the RDD unless playing a bard or using it as a multiclass for a fighter-type.

But, in conclusion - it all comes down to how you like to play. My advice is to try both of them out for a while, and then decide wich one to commit to.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:17 am

Wizards are more powerfull then sorcerers, they have more spells (which you can choose for yourself) and have an advantage with their higher wisdom (high charisma is nice but not more then that) So Xan is right there, about all points, Meta is uber good, try a maximised fireball!!.

RDD is a fighter presitge class, don't pick it if you want to go with spells.

If you want to play with undead with the pale master, you had better simply pick a clerick.

All these classes are cool and ultimately you simply have to choose what you think is cool. Just don't expect a wizard / RDD to be strong in melee fights and a pale master to be stonger with undead then a cleric.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:04 pm

Originally posted by Rob-hin
<snip>
Meta is uber good, try a maximised fireball!!.
<snip>

Well - I've never used meta-magical feats myself. I see them more as a roleplaying tool.
I know a maximized fireball does nice damage (on paper), but I wouldn't want to "waste" a level 6 spell slot on it (iirc, a maximized spell is spell level + 3). Then I'd rather have a the slot used on Tensers transformation, chain lightning, mass haste or Isacs Missile Storm instead.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:15 pm

Think about this then:

A chain lightning does 1d6 damage per level to its first target (20d6, so about 60), then it jumps to a next target and does half damage and so on untill it hardly (or no) does any damage anymore. (reflex for half)

A maximised fireball does 1d6 damage per level for everyone it hits, maximise this and you get 10 times 6 = 60 damager per hit at all targets instead of half each time.

(reflex for half)

Everybody his own style though, try it for fun though.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:05 am

Yeah - but try to use a maximzied fireball against something that is immune or resistant to fire, compared to having a mass haste or Tensers Transformation available. Or even a Chain Lightning just to have different damage type.

The spell level of +3 for a maximized has ensured I've never used it (and likely never will in any greater extend).

Difference in damage type and number of available spell slots are big factors for me when choosing spells. I rarely have many spells that cover the same damage type. I like the diversity that comes with different damage types.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:12 am

And right you are.

It all depends on the situation a character is in too I suppose.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:47 am

Yeah.

However - I do think meta magic is more usefull for a wizard also, because he can shift his spells around much more freely then a sorcerer.

Noober · Post by **Noober** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:40 am

Metamagic is the best ability the sorceror/wizard has. I allows you to cast your best spells frequently, as well as giving your spells a huge boost. One maximised IGMS will kill any level 20 character with no save. Metamagic is especially good for the sorceror as you can still cast your normal spells without worrying about losing variety. Extended spells can also save slots for other spells.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:51 am

Originally posted by Noober
<snip>
One maximised IGMS will kill any level 20 character with no save. <snip>

Only if there is just one target in the area, and that target has 120 hitpoint or less. And then you have cast the spell as a level 9 spell, instead of say, a Time Stop that could have made you cast a couple of spells freely. Or a Powerword Kill, Wail of the Banshee etc.

Damage is nice on paper, as I said - but I still see the maximized spell as a spell of level +3 - and then I'd rather cast a normal spell from that spell level.
I'd rather use a Time Stop or other level 9 spells then a maximized level 6 spell.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:23 am

Sorcerers don't get meta-magic feats.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:38 am

They can take them as ordinary feats (every 3rd level).
They just don't get them as bonus feats as Wizards - but they still have access to them.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:47 am

Yeah that's what I ment, sorry I was feeling a bit laizy.
What is the advantage the sorcerer get in excange for the loss of teh bonus feats anyway?

Noober · Post by **Noober** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:02 pm

Metamagic (excluding extend) is used with damage spells. A sorceror is a "walking artillery platform". A wizard is a "swiss army knife". Therefore using logic a sorceror is more attuned to using metamagic, and what other good feats are there anyway?

Only if there is just one target in the area, and that target has 120 hitpoint or less. And then you have cast the spell as a level 9 spell, instead of say, a Time Stop that could have made you cast a couple of spells freely. Or a Powerword Kill, Wail of the Banshee etc.

Then in such a situation an empowered/maximised Firebrand (with Time Stop) is far superior to any other spells (except perhaps uder special conditions Horrid Wilting).

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:09 am

Originally posted by Noober
Metamagic (excluding extend) is used with damage spells. A sorceror is a "walking artillery platform". A wizard is a "swiss army knife". Therefore using logic a sorceror is more attuned to using metamagic, and what other good feats are there anyway?<snip>

I don't see any reason why a sorcerer should be more logical to use meta-magic then a wizard. Especially because of the game mechanics.
A wizard can just memorize new spells all the time, and thus adapt to situations ahead, whereas if a sorcerer once has chosen fireball, he will always have that fireball - even if facing enemies that are immune to fire.

Originally posted by Noober

Then in such a situation an empowered/maximised Firebrand (with Time Stop) is far superior to any other spells (except perhaps uder special conditions Horrid Wilting).

I dont know in which situation you are refereing to.
You posted that an maximized IGMS would kill any level 20 character.
I then posted that the level 20 character had to have less then 120 hitpoints and be the only creature in the area of effect. (maximized 1d6 damage from up to 20 missles)
Then I said I would never use a maximized IGMS because it would take the slot of a TimeStop or Wail of the Banshee (for instance - would take a level 9 spell slot).

Meta magic likely has its place for some (many) players, but I've played magic casters extensively in NwN, and have yet to even use any meta-magic more then once. I see no reason for it, even if the damage is high.

Noober · Post by **Noober** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:47 am

I don't see any reason why a sorcerer should be more logical to use meta-magic then a wizard. Especially because of the game mechanics.

When using metamagic with a wizard, you will have less variety in spells prepared. Where as 'preparing' spells with metamagic using a sorceror doesn't reduce variety. And metamaigc can even improve spell choice for a wizard. For example if there are 5 very good spell choices on a certain level, you can take more of those spells by using higher levels slots for some of them using metamagic.

I dont know in which situation you are refereing to.
You posted that an maximized IGMS would kill any level 20 character.
I then posted that the level 20 character had to have less then 120 hitpoints and be the only creature in the area of effect. (maximized 1d6 damage from up to 20 missles)
Then I said I would never use a maximized IGMS because it would take the slot of a TimeStop or Wail of the Banshee (for instance - would take a level 9 spell slot).

Any situation where there is more then one opponent. Sorry I wasn't very clear in my last post. Also I fail to see how Powerword Kill is superior to IGMS.

I should also correct myself, an maximized IGMS will in fact NOT kill every level 20 character. A Barbarian who re-rolls heath and has consitiution above 11 will not die.

And a question: Does metamagic work on the 'shadow' spells?