I am in the process of making extensive revisions to my Class FAQ (version 1.0 of which has already been posted in the download section of [url="http://www.gamefaqs.com,"]www.gamefaqs.com,[/url] which is just a summary of the various classes with some commentary and which I am not saying is anything more than just a 'start.'). I plan to triple the length by the end of this weekend. The FAQ will be organized as follows:
1. Objective Statistics (I have already written this part)
2. Combat Strategy (that's where I could use some help)
3. Subjective Commentary and Rating (that's already in version 1.0, but I will be expanding upon and revising this considerably)
I need help on #2 for the class combos I am less familiar with. I will give full credit--just indicate whether you want your real name or your forum name to go into it. Although your submission may affect my opinion of the class, I still reserve the right to possibly give the class a negative rating. However, your combat strategy should be written from the perspective of how to make the character work, on how to win or fulfill a role to help the party with that class combo. Your submission should be about one page, preferred format would be "WordPad." I may or may not accept your submission, and also I'm not sure at this point whether I will include submissions on combat strategy in 'Version 1.5,' which I plan to post by the end of the weekend, or 'Version 2.0,' which should appear in the future.
The class combos I particularly need help on are:
1) Archer
2) BeastMaster
3) Monk
4) Assassin
5) Bounty Hunter
6) Totemic Druid
7) Mage
8) Sorcerer
9) Dual Class Combos besides the ones that are in Version 1.0
10) Fighter/Cleric/Mage
11) Thief/Mage
12) Cleric/Thief
NOTE: The philosophy of my FAQ is that I want NO SPOILERS, not even concerning the magical items that are available.
--Riverwind
Riverwind's Revised FAQ--Need Combat Strategies
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Andrew Shih
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@Riverwind: Posting here since I don't know how else to contact you. Great work on the Class document. The result shouws you obviously put a lot of effort in.
That said, since I have an opinion on just about everything I have several comments on it...
Berzerker: Special ability is 'Enrage', not to be confused with Barbarian 'Rage'.
Kensai: I can't believe you gave him a lower grade than the Wizard Slayer and the same as the Bestmaster. Course, I would probably give them about a D+. As far as AC goes, the best the Wizard Slayer can get dual wielding is AC -6 (Armor of the Hart +3 w/ 18 Dex), Kensai with Amulet, Gaxx, ROP+2 is at AC -6. With a katana Kai gives an average of +5 damage and the Kensai also gets +6 damage (not just Thac0) at level 18+ for a total of +11 damage/hit. My grade: B-
Ranger: Interesting rangers have the exact same saves at level 17 as fighters at 19? I don't know where the break points are and don't know if they get bonuses like the paladins do.
Archer: Movement rates...now I understand why bows became so much less effective in BG2 compared to BG1. Good observation.
Barbarian: AC should be 0 since you're adding the Dex 18 bonus to everyone else.
Monk: I think his saves are Cleric +2 or +3, not Cleric +1 as listed. Not having exceptional strength doesn't matter much with all the belts lying around. I agree Monks are the real Wizard Slayers. I would actually rate him a little better than you did, but not much since a Bezerker can actually be equal or better to him at almost everything except stealth.
Assasin: The assasin's poison is far better than that available on weapons. Importantly, it is save for half rather than save to avoid.
Swashbuckler vs other thieves: They're great if you don't like to backstab. I really like to backstab with my thieves. I wouldn't rate them any higher than C+ given the ratings for the other thieves.
Jester: There is an item that confuses, but not anytime you want while remaining invisible.
Mage spells: Don't forget Project Image which also comes with it's own set of items and spells.
Elven Fighter/Mage: Generally speaking the Robe of Vecna and even the Robes of the Archmages are superior to Elven Chain.
Soloist:
Fighting - this is making it tough for my no-level-up T/M against highly MR creatures (Bohdi).
Defense - I usually call this 'healing'. It CAN be handled by potions, but gets expensive unless you have thieving abilities
Avenger/Fighter: He actually gets 6 attacks while in spider thanks to the extra for being a fighter. Combined with potions to boost dex and str (and even con) the Spider can be deadly...against opponents that aren't immune to its attacks. My spider shredded Firkragg. Since the Spider also gets better poison than the Wyvern the other two forms are pathetic in comparison with the potential exception opponents relying on fire for the Salamander.
However, given the items available in the game, I don't think he's as strong as certain other dual classes for soloing. Belm/Gnasher is nice, but can't compete with Crom Faeyr/FoA.
Kensai-Druid: Now if only Kensai-Avenger was possible...
That said, since I have an opinion on just about everything I have several comments on it...
Berzerker: Special ability is 'Enrage', not to be confused with Barbarian 'Rage'.
Kensai: I can't believe you gave him a lower grade than the Wizard Slayer and the same as the Bestmaster. Course, I would probably give them about a D+. As far as AC goes, the best the Wizard Slayer can get dual wielding is AC -6 (Armor of the Hart +3 w/ 18 Dex), Kensai with Amulet, Gaxx, ROP+2 is at AC -6. With a katana Kai gives an average of +5 damage and the Kensai also gets +6 damage (not just Thac0) at level 18+ for a total of +11 damage/hit. My grade: B-
Ranger: Interesting rangers have the exact same saves at level 17 as fighters at 19? I don't know where the break points are and don't know if they get bonuses like the paladins do.
Archer: Movement rates...now I understand why bows became so much less effective in BG2 compared to BG1. Good observation.
Barbarian: AC should be 0 since you're adding the Dex 18 bonus to everyone else.
Monk: I think his saves are Cleric +2 or +3, not Cleric +1 as listed. Not having exceptional strength doesn't matter much with all the belts lying around. I agree Monks are the real Wizard Slayers. I would actually rate him a little better than you did, but not much since a Bezerker can actually be equal or better to him at almost everything except stealth.
Assasin: The assasin's poison is far better than that available on weapons. Importantly, it is save for half rather than save to avoid.
Swashbuckler vs other thieves: They're great if you don't like to backstab. I really like to backstab with my thieves. I wouldn't rate them any higher than C+ given the ratings for the other thieves.
Jester: There is an item that confuses, but not anytime you want while remaining invisible.
Mage spells: Don't forget Project Image which also comes with it's own set of items and spells.
Elven Fighter/Mage: Generally speaking the Robe of Vecna and even the Robes of the Archmages are superior to Elven Chain.
Soloist:
Fighting - this is making it tough for my no-level-up T/M against highly MR creatures (Bohdi).
Defense - I usually call this 'healing'. It CAN be handled by potions, but gets expensive unless you have thieving abilities
Avenger/Fighter: He actually gets 6 attacks while in spider thanks to the extra for being a fighter. Combined with potions to boost dex and str (and even con) the Spider can be deadly...against opponents that aren't immune to its attacks. My spider shredded Firkragg. Since the Spider also gets better poison than the Wyvern the other two forms are pathetic in comparison with the potential exception opponents relying on fire for the Salamander.
However, given the items available in the game, I don't think he's as strong as certain other dual classes for soloing. Belm/Gnasher is nice, but can't compete with Crom Faeyr/FoA.
Kensai-Druid: Now if only Kensai-Avenger was possible...
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Andrew Shih
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Nighthawk:
Thanks for your comments. I wanted to get away from factoring in magical weapon and armor though because there are so many different possibilities, plus in Throne of Bhaal there will be a whole new set of equipment and armor, and I wanted to focus on classes and kits rather than on who can wield or wear what special weapon or armor or item.
The AC shown is the AC with the dexterity bonus and the normal armor available to the class. Barbarians have a higher AC because they can't wear plate. Best they can wear is splint.
Regarding monks, I would have rated them higher, but I deferred to the "guest commentator" who wrote the commentary section for monks. I would proably have given the monk a 'B+'/'A-' myself based upon his special abilities.
There is a big debate in the GameFaqs forum over the Kensai, with most of the regulars (including myself) believing that the Kensai is overrated. He's basically a fighter with no armor. Not very practical, doesn't fulfill his role within a party as a frontline fighter.
You shredded Firkraag with an Avenger Spider? Way to go! I want to hear more about this feat. Did you have an Avenger-Fighter? Also, with my Avenger-Fighter, I'm not sure he was able to get the 6 attacks/round, unless the 1 point damage for poison counts as one of the attacks. This definitely deserves more delving into.
--Riverwind
Thanks for your comments. I wanted to get away from factoring in magical weapon and armor though because there are so many different possibilities, plus in Throne of Bhaal there will be a whole new set of equipment and armor, and I wanted to focus on classes and kits rather than on who can wield or wear what special weapon or armor or item.
The AC shown is the AC with the dexterity bonus and the normal armor available to the class. Barbarians have a higher AC because they can't wear plate. Best they can wear is splint.
Regarding monks, I would have rated them higher, but I deferred to the "guest commentator" who wrote the commentary section for monks. I would proably have given the monk a 'B+'/'A-' myself based upon his special abilities.
There is a big debate in the GameFaqs forum over the Kensai, with most of the regulars (including myself) believing that the Kensai is overrated. He's basically a fighter with no armor. Not very practical, doesn't fulfill his role within a party as a frontline fighter.
You shredded Firkraag with an Avenger Spider? Way to go! I want to hear more about this feat. Did you have an Avenger-Fighter? Also, with my Avenger-Fighter, I'm not sure he was able to get the 6 attacks/round, unless the 1 point damage for poison counts as one of the attacks. This definitely deserves more delving into.
--Riverwind
Riverwind:
Barbarians AC is worse than fighters, but it is currently listed at 4, which is base AC for splint. They should be listed at 0 which adds in the dex bonus like everyone else does.
To some extent, the existance of magical items needs to be considered. Yes, this will change in TOB but some of the items that are around are unlikely to be outclassed anytime soon (Staff of Magi, Crom Faeyr, Helm of Balduran, Gaxx, etc.)
They deliberately included an item to effectively give the Kensai an AC equivalent to armor with a base of 2 (Amulet + Kensai bonus) and put it in the Fighter quest so he'd find it. The Kensai is hardly without armor. Less armor, but still decent. I'm curious how many of those knocking them have actually played the whole game with one. I did and he was on the front lines the whole time and didn't require any more healing than the regeneration he got from Gaxx.
Avenger-Fighter (oddly, listed as Great Druid and Avenger in his sheet
) vs Firkragg.
Avenger casts Iron Skins, summons 2 Fire Elementals, casts 5xAoF, casts Protection from Fire, shapeshifts to spider, drinks 2 (3?) potions of Mind Focussing (Dex 25) and a potion of Storm Giant Strength (Str 24) then jumps on Firkragg with 6 attacks/round. Firkragg did get in a few wing buffets and took out at least one of the elementals, but it wasn't long before his stone skins were gone and after that he went down fast.
Firkragg did make most of his saves vs the poison, but he's the only monster I've seen so far that has.
It seems that with the Avenger-Fighter, the Fighter bonus attack sticks around for the shapeshifted forms.
Barbarians AC is worse than fighters, but it is currently listed at 4, which is base AC for splint. They should be listed at 0 which adds in the dex bonus like everyone else does.
To some extent, the existance of magical items needs to be considered. Yes, this will change in TOB but some of the items that are around are unlikely to be outclassed anytime soon (Staff of Magi, Crom Faeyr, Helm of Balduran, Gaxx, etc.)
They deliberately included an item to effectively give the Kensai an AC equivalent to armor with a base of 2 (Amulet + Kensai bonus) and put it in the Fighter quest so he'd find it. The Kensai is hardly without armor. Less armor, but still decent. I'm curious how many of those knocking them have actually played the whole game with one. I did and he was on the front lines the whole time and didn't require any more healing than the regeneration he got from Gaxx.
Avenger-Fighter (oddly, listed as Great Druid and Avenger in his sheet
) vs Firkragg.Avenger casts Iron Skins, summons 2 Fire Elementals, casts 5xAoF, casts Protection from Fire, shapeshifts to spider, drinks 2 (3?) potions of Mind Focussing (Dex 25) and a potion of Storm Giant Strength (Str 24) then jumps on Firkragg with 6 attacks/round. Firkragg did get in a few wing buffets and took out at least one of the elementals, but it wasn't long before his stone skins were gone and after that he went down fast.
Firkragg did make most of his saves vs the poison, but he's the only monster I've seen so far that has.
It seems that with the Avenger-Fighter, the Fighter bonus attack sticks around for the shapeshifted forms.
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Andrew Shih
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You know what? I noticed that too for my 12-18 Avenger-Fighter. I was kind of feeling a bit of a letdown by not being able to attain the status of "Great Druid," but after emerging from the underdark, I got the news that I was nominated!
Yes, you're right about the barbarian AC--an oversight on my part. Thanks.
Did you know by the way that shapeshifted forms CAN use a weapon in their left hand for I think another attack? Also, that that weapon can be the Belm +2 for another two attacks? Finally, that you can put the Belm +2 in your right hand BEFORE you shapeshift and then AFTER you shapeshift, put another weapon in your left hand and for some reason you still get the extra attack ability of the Belm +2 even though it's buried and not used in your right "paw," and so you get an extra swing or two with whatever you put in the left hand (i.e. Gnasher Club). I haven't experimented yet with putting shields in the left hand and then shapeshifting, or putting weapons with other special abilities other than the Belm +2 in the right hand before shapeshifting, but I've been told that this works for Shapeshifters and normal druids as well. So much for the dismissal of shapeshifted forms as not being able to use magical weapons....
--Riverwind
Yes, you're right about the barbarian AC--an oversight on my part. Thanks.
Did you know by the way that shapeshifted forms CAN use a weapon in their left hand for I think another attack? Also, that that weapon can be the Belm +2 for another two attacks? Finally, that you can put the Belm +2 in your right hand BEFORE you shapeshift and then AFTER you shapeshift, put another weapon in your left hand and for some reason you still get the extra attack ability of the Belm +2 even though it's buried and not used in your right "paw," and so you get an extra swing or two with whatever you put in the left hand (i.e. Gnasher Club). I haven't experimented yet with putting shields in the left hand and then shapeshifting, or putting weapons with other special abilities other than the Belm +2 in the right hand before shapeshifting, but I've been told that this works for Shapeshifters and normal druids as well. So much for the dismissal of shapeshifted forms as not being able to use magical weapons....
--Riverwind
Couldn't agree with you more, Nighthawk. Kensai's lack of armor is far less of a disadvantages than at first glance. Both my kensais I have played with had far more kills than any other party member, one almost doubling Korgan's kill ratio. Besides, if someone can't seem to play them on the front line, they make a devastating second line fighter and will still mop up.Originally posted by Nighthawk:
<STRONG>I'm curious how many of those knocking them have actually played the whole game with one. I did and he was on the front lines the whole time and didn't require any more healing than the regeneration he got from Gaxx.</STRONG>
@Riverwind, I too was surprised at the low grade given to monks, though I understand the rationale. Monks, at later levels, are possible the most balanced class in the game, and certainly one of the best fighters. Their combination of magic resistance, # of attacks, natural AC, damage potential, natural resistances, useful thief skills, and movement rate, makes this class astounding. Toward the end of BG2, they become almost boring, they are so powerful. I hear they're coming with an autopilot ability in ToB.
Matti Il-Amin, Paladin, comedian, and expert adventurer. Proudly bearing the colors of the [url="http://www.svelmoe.dk/blade/index.htm"]Blades of the Banshee[/url]