Whose ur fav?

[lompo]

Originally posted by corsair
But, this thread/poll are specificaly for Minsc, Keldorn, and Sarevok. I chose those three because those are the ones that are more of up front fighters to me. But, i know that anyone of them can be very deadly with a crossbow or long/short bow.

Out of the three Keldorn is the most usefull because is a strong front line fighter and he has some great abilities (dispel magic, true sight and summon Deva) plus he can use Carsomir (best two handed w. if you don't have mods installed; Minsc is a very good fighter stop (althought he can be funny).
Sarevok is a great fighter stop (but is also your "brother").
But if you are talking of front line fighter you can't forget Korgan that is the best of all three!!!!
Actuslly I think he is better than Sarevok (!): stat. wise he loses 2 points in dex (-2 AC) but he gets an extra point in Con. (about + 10 HP), plus if you raise his Con to 20 (possible in ToB) he should get regeneration, and in ToB the HP are way more important then 2 point of AC (monster are hitting you anyway); thay both get Gr.Mast. but Korgan will always have more exp. (so more HLA) because you get him in SoA; finally Sarevok has Deathbringer assault wich is nice (kind of vorpal attack at 10%), but Korgan is a real berserker (!!!!!) that is much more useful; finally Korgan is also a fun Char., give him a try!
P.S. Front line fighter don't need to be very deadly with ranged weapon (if they shoot arrows, who is taking the blows in the front line?), anyway give Korgan a throwing axe/hammer (some very nice available) and he can range too (with Gran.M).

[fable]

Originally posted by lompo
Sarevok is a great fighter stop (but is also your "brother").

Stop? That's it? Forgot his Deathbringer Assault, did you? 150-200 points damage in one shot? Throw him the Ravager +6, which kills outright 10% of the time. That isn't a "great fighter." That's a force of nature.

[HighLordDave]

Our friend corsair is really asking two questions. The question on the poll is "Who is your favourite?" and then in the text of the thread, he asks, "Who is the best?"

The first question is a matter of subjective opinion, and the second a little more objective, but with some caveats.

Minsc and Boo are my favourite characters in the entire series with lots of entertainment value. The novelty of fighting along side your evil "brother" who you have already slain once (twice if you count the encounter in Hell), and controlling him is also pretty cool and he has a lot of good dialogue (especially with Nalia and Imoen) in Throne of Bhaal.

My least favourite is Keldorn because I really don't like paladins and I think that there are other characters who can step into Keldorn's place as the party "brick" (Minsc, Valygar, Korgan and even Mazzy). Plus, if you play a fighter/ranger/paladin/barbarian/monk as the PC, your need for Keldorn just dropped considerably.

The second question, "Who is the best?" is riddled with "ifs" and depends on how you outfit each fighter: If Keldorn has Carsomyr, he'll beat the hell out of Sarevok, if Sarevok has the Silver Sword, he'll beat the hell out of Minsc, if Minsc has Celestial Fury and Angurvadal +5, he'll beat the hell out of Keldorn.

I think that if you stripped all three down with no weapons and no armour, and put them in a room, Sarevok is going to win. For all the stats that matter for a fighter, his are the best.

A lot also depends on your playing style. The first time I went through SoA, I had a ranger PC, Minsc, Jahiera, Aerie, Nalia and Imoen. When I got to ToB, I swapped Jahiera for Sarevok and walked over everything that got in my way, with a swarm of comets and dragon's breaths being far more useful than anything my fighters could throw down.

[lompo]

Originally posted by fable
Stop? That's it? Forgot his Deathbringer Assault, did you? 150-200 points damage in one shot? Throw him the Ravager +6, which kills outright 10% of the time. That isn't a "great fighter." That's a force of nature.

I didn't forgot the deathbringer assault, as I pointed out in the confront with Korgan later, I was just refering to the fact that he is a plain fighter, no kits.
He is a great fighter with the extra ability of the D. Ass., that you have to weight with the extra abilities of the other fighters (all good/great fighters): Keldorn (dispell magic/true sight/summon deva), Korgan (berserk rage), Minsc (nothing, unless you count those few weak druidic spells); plus should be pointed out that when you get Sarevok he has a lot less exp/lev than the others (i.e. HP and HLA).
But any of them will make a great frontliner.

[VonDondu]

Originally posted by lompo
Minsc (nothing, unless you count those few weak druidic spells)...

I suspect that few people ever use those spells, but I would not dismiss them as being "weak" or useless. Armor of Faith, Doom, Barkskin, Resist Fire/Cold, Summon Insects, Dispel Magic, and Call Lightning are all useful, wonderful spells, and it's a shame that people don't use them more often.

[fable]

Originally posted by lompo
I didn't forgot the deathbringer assault, as I pointed out in the confront with Korgan later, I was just refering to the fact that he is a plain fighter, no kits.

Guess I think of DA as something that isn't possible for a plain fighter, which takes Sarevok out of that category. He's a sorta uber-fighter, with an attack that beats anything the other pounders can deliver, even late in the game.

And you have to love Jan for calling him Binky...

[lompo]

Originally posted by VonDondu
I suspect that few people ever use those spells, but I would not dismiss them as being "weak" or useless. Armor of Faith, Doom, Barkskin, Resist Fire/Cold, Summon Insects, Dispel Magic, and Call Lightning are all useful, wonderful spells, and it's a shame that people don't use them more often.

I didn't said useles, but weak, obviously for Minsc: Arm.of Faith is a nice spell for a cleric, but because doesn't stack with hardiness (check Xyx) is not that useful for a fighter; same for barskin, good for a druid or a mage, but Minsc has something better to wear (although there is a bonus on saves that is stil nice); resist fire/cold can be useful, but if you have a priest he should have already many of them, dispel magic (?) I hope you don't count on Minsc for dispelling things (unless you play without an inquisitor, another paladin, a bard, a cleric, a mage and a druid); Doom, Summ. insects and Call light. can be useful, but thay take a round to cast and and I think that in that round Minsc can usually be more useful doing something different.
So the spell are an add on to the char (that's nice), but thay don't give him important bonus/advantage for his role, thus thay are weak.

[lompo]

Originally posted by fable
Guess I think of DA as something that isn't possible for a plain fighter, which takes Sarevok out of that category. He's a sorta uber-fighter, with an attack that beats anything the other pounders can deliver, even late in the game.

And you have to love Jan for calling him Binky...

Sarevok is a great fighter but is not of another category (meaning is not far superior to the other).

Starting with the fact that all four are very good fighter at the least.

Ok, is definetly a better fighter than Minsc, due to his D.A., G.M. and better stats, only partially compensated by Minsc higer exp. (more HLA) and spell (weak add-on).

With Keldorn the comparison is not so straight forward. Keldorn is an Inquisitor, so is a very special fighter: Sarevok is undoubtly a better fighter, but you have to weight the special abilities Keldorn has (a super dispell magic, true sight, summon deva and prot. f. evil), those are not combat abilities (thus Sarevok is a much better fighter), but thay are a great add-on to the party: they free your mage/cleric of a lev. 3 (disp. mag.), a lev. 4 (prot. evil, the cleric spell protect all the party, but Keldorn get so many of them you can use it singularly for the one not already protected by items), a lev 5/6 (true sight) and a lev 7 (summon deva); on top of that Keldorn has more exp. (i.e. HLA) and better saving throws due to the paladin bonus and his better Wis..

Finally the comparison with Korgan: they both have G.M., Sarevok has a better dex. (+ 2 AC, but in ToB wan't make a big difference), but Korgan has better Con. (+ 9 hp) and taking into account the higher level Korgan has it means at least 25 hp more (which count in fights), plus you can raise Korgan Con. to 20 (in W.K.) so giving him natural regeneration (!). Korgan has also better saving trows due to be a dwarf.
Finally you have the D.A. vs. the berserker rage making Sarevok the most effective damage dealer of the game, but Korgan is a better tank when raged (+ 40 hp, same AC and immunity to almost everything).
So at the end I don't think Sarevok is of another category although is a great char and a great fighter, maybe the best, maybe.

[Armycardinal]

I've only played SoA twice. I used Minsc all the way thru BG1, both times. Love him there, but I wanted to see someone new.

There are only so many times I can stand hearing, 'Boo says, WHAAAT!'

I like Keldorn and the Carsomyr. By the time I got to ToB, I had my party set and was used to them, so I don't want to mess with a good thing (after all we just killed Irenicus ) and I don't take Sarevok.

For what it's worth.

AC

[fable]

Originally posted by lompo
Finally you have the D.A. vs. the berserker rage making Sarevok the most effective damage dealer of the game, but Korgan is a better tank when raged (+ 40 hp, same AC and immunity to almost everything).

But isn't a fighter's rage limited to--what is it again?--twice before resting, I think? And doesn't Sarevok have an unlimited number of Deathbringer Assaults to launch? I could be wrong on this; I've been playing and reviewing a ton of games lately (and even restarted Magic Candle III, believe it or not), so I'm not certain. But my impression was that Sarevok had all this, plus the same immunity Korgan has.

And if Sarevok's a fighter, he's got rage, as well.

Bottom line, for me: I wouldn't want to meet either of these suckers in a dark alley. But if I had to choose one to lead me through hordes of mall people during the holiday season on a weekend, it would be Sarevok. He's got the guts, he's got the power and by the gods, he's got my vote!

[lompo]

Originally posted by fable
But isn't a fighter's rage limited to--what is it again?--twice before resting, I think? And doesn't Sarevok have an unlimited number of Deathbringer Assaults to launch? I could be wrong on this; I've been playing and reviewing a ton of games lately (and even restarted Magic Candle III, believe it or not), so I'm not certain. But my impression was that Sarevok had all this, plus the same immunity Korgan has.

Sarevok doesn't have the rage ability, rage is specific of the berserker kit (1 every 4 lev. and last 1 turn if not mistake), so only Korgan has it (6-8 per day in ToB).
As I said, of the four Sarevok is the best damage dealer, Korgan is the best defensive tank, Keldorn is the best multi pourpose add on to the party, Minsc is just Minsc!
Anyway if I have to give a vote, mine is for Keldorn, even if is not the most powerful fighter.

[Luis Antonio]

Originally posted by fable
Stop? That's it? Forgot his Deathbringer Assault, did you? 150-200 points damage in one shot? Throw him the Ravager +6, which kills outright 10% of the time. That isn't a "great fighter." That's a force of nature.

Fable, that is really poetry. You've just convinced me - Koveras in my party.
But with Minsc, as well. I like Boo, and I hope (sigh) that he becomes a Giant Space Hamster someday

[Badseed]

I would have to say Sarevok is my favorite.
1) He is your brother!
2) He is willing to help you even if you are good-aligned.
3) Best stats of any NPC.
4) Good dialogs.
5) Deathbringer Assult!

Minsc I like alot too. He comes in second. Dual wielding and Boo! Also, he makes me laugh.

Keldorn I actually find quite boring. But I use him becouse of the Pally sword, Truesight, and Dispell abilities. Else, bye bye.

[Elemental ZOOT]

I think out of the 3 it would BE
Sarevok. Best stats, You can dual into M or T
They're all great BUT i have

Sarevok,Edwin,Vicionia,Korgan,Imoen AND the greatest assest in my group is my Fighter/Thief (Kensai/Thief)
W/18/00 str
18 dex
18 con
16 int
16 wis
10 chr
W/UAI He ROCKS. No one can defeat him.

[corsair]

When i just started playing ToB i got Minsc, Keldorn, and Saverok all in my group. Gave em all 2 handed swords and let em go crazy. Great if you like melee, sucks if you dont wanna have 2 reload a lot when you get attacked by powerful mages.

[UserUnfriendly]

Originally posted by lompo
I didn't said useles, but weak, obviously for Minsc: Arm.of Faith is a nice spell for a cleric, but because doesn't stack with hardiness (check Xyx) is not that useful for a fighter;

armor of faith does stack with hardiness...but you cannot stack armor of faith with itself and hardiness does not stack with itself...

but cast armor and hardiness and you get the benefit of both spells, and around 60% resistance to slashing, piercing and blunt..very useful and a point in minsc's favor...

keldorn dispell is very powerful, and he gets summon deva as innate... a great combination...toss in true sight, and you have a really great tank...

saravok death bringer assault can be the difference between a quick kill or a longer battle...

korgy, improve haste him, give him axe of unyielding and crom, and free action him...enrage, and point at enemy and let him go...his defensive capabilities make him almost invulnerable...

here's how i see it...

if you want a defensive tank...

korgan

offensive

savvy

extra spell power, cause you've got few mages,

keldorn

funny banter, and someone who is decent defensively

minsc.

[lompo]

User, I totaly agree with you, and that is the point I wanted to make.
They are all great differently, no one is better (maybe Minsc is less powerful), it all depends on your team an its needs.

[Boris]

But what about Mazzy?

I hate agreeing with anyone, in case anyone thinks I'm soft, but kinda have to concur with UU, if only to save typing.

But how come nobody ever mentions the Maz-woman?

Took her on my 3rd run coz I'm a goody-good who's never met the evil Dwarf & can't stand that sanctimonious twerp with the marriage problems. But I've been pleasantly surprised to discover what a buzz-saw she is. Those paladinesque powers are pretty durn handy in the middle levels and the Lay on Hands is an uber-cure throughout the game. Hobbit saving throws are similarly pretty handy, but I don't feel any great loss at not using "big" swords (esp with the Moded SoA - as good a weapon as any).

Because Maz is a pure fighter, she just racks up the Special Abilities - she can have half-a-dozen before one even *meets* the Sar-man with the big attack...
The bottom line for me is that I'm used to setting M. to hold a flank by herself & not having to worry about her at all. Probably the only NPC I've never had to resurect!

I know this poll is about the others, but thought Mazzy deserved a mention.

B.

P.S. Tried playing with Sara once, but he gave me the creeps so much I swapped back to Minsc! Must try again next time, with patience to wait for the conversion...

[VonDondu]

It's funny to hear Mazzy described as a "hobbit".

[Boris]

Is this a copyright issue?

Originally posted by VonDondu
It's funny to hear Mazzy described as a "hobbit".

Maybe I'm very old-fashioned - I know the official rules haven't used Prof. T's word since the days of the original 3 books + Greyhawk. But I don't know *anyone* who actually says "Halfling" in normal conversation...

Course, most of my interlocutors (sp?) are as old as I... er, would be if I weren't a sprightly 19-year-old who rents his body to Adonis at the weekends. And none of us are scared of legal proceedings...

B.

P.S. Is it possible to put together an all-female party? Seems to me that BGII is very stereotypical - most of the big, tough fighters are blokes, while most of the women are relegated to "nurturing" roles, apart from a token or two...
Even if I were to take my PC as a fem. fighter (which I wouldn't), I still don't see how one could form a balanced but all-girly party, though I'm sure there are plenty of all-boy options...