NPCs

viewer · Post by **viewer** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 6:33 pm

Does anyone else think that the NPC characters and even your responses to situation could have been better handled. I mean the interplay people have put so much energy into integrating BG1 and BG2 they could have done some to the NPC interactions better.

For example when you go to Whisphere and kill the Knights under orc illusion Anomen informs you that one of the knights, possible the leader, was Ajantis. For does of you who didn't play BG1 or don't remember, he was a NPC you could get in BG1 who wanted to you help him take out the bandits and stuff. I had him in BG1 for much of the game and liked him a lot. In his biography it said that he was mentored by Keldorn. I had Keldorn with me when I accidently killed Ajantis and his team in Winsphere. Would it have been too much to ask for Keldorn to say one line acknowledging Ajantis? I mean its not like interplay can't do complicated conversation tiggers.

Gerrick and Feldorn were two other NPCs with lousy tiggers. Both were possible NPCs in BG1, yet you couldn't even hold a conversation with Gerrick and Feldorn didn't seem to recognise you. Now a lot of people might have missed Feldorn since you couldn't get her till really late in the game but Gerrick you could get pretty early and in Trademeet you meet another Bard who had heard stories about you from Gerrick! So when you met him in front of the Most Radiant Heart trying to woe the Paladine would it have been too much trouble for the people at interplay to put in a conversation trigger that went something like,

G: Well I haven't seen you for a while. Where have you been?

PC: You know me. I like to travel. So any luck with Lady whatshername?

G: No, but who could resist the Gerrick charm for long?

the gnome in the bushes: Get over yourself pretty boy.

You know just an added bit of hilarity. Also the temple of Ogma (I don't think I spelt that right) in the dock district. One of the conversation options there is tell me a bit about Ogma. Hello, you grew up in Candlekeep I would think you would know a bit about Ogma. A better way to do it would have been to have a speech option that informed the priest that you were from Candlekeep. The Prist than said someting to that effect he would be negligent in his duty if he did not make sure that you remembered who Ogma was and quized you on who Ogma was and what he taught. It you answered correctly you got a item but if you did not you got lectured on Ogma.

They could have also let you talk to your party members like in Planescape torment. That would also be interesting.

I know most of you stopped reading a while back but lastly I would like to say that they should have had a Haer'dalis and Aerie romance regardless of whether the PC was romancing Aerie or not. That way she would whine less and have a better ending. Ah that's just my opinion. Agree or disagree I still think BG2 would have been much more interesting with some more NPC interaction.

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 7:02 pm

Keldorn did recognize Ajantis... At least, he did in my game. I don't know if there's any particular factor for Keldorn to react.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 8:49 am

the transition from bg1 -> 2 was imo about as good as it could be, there are way too many varibles for the game to react to.

for example in one game (bg1) minsc is "chunked" by a lightning bolt, and is quickly replaced by yeslick, i finished that game w/ dyhanir, yet in the dungeon there is minsc & dyhanir is dead? what happened?

or 2nd run through bg1, never saw jaheria & kahalid, yet bg2 jaheria & i'm supposed to know who khalid was?

it was kinda neat to stumble upon some old friends, but for the sake of continuity the designers could have just eliminated all of the bg1 npc's and started fresh w/ a whole new batch, but then we'd be complaining that we never found out what happened to so and so.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:16 pm

Originally posted by Underdog:
I may be wrong, but it's been my impression that sometimes you may miss certain NPC comments if several NPCs are trying to comment at the same time.

Very right, actually. For example, if you refuse to take Imoen into the party in Spellhold, about 6 NPCs will want to comment on that. Only one will. Depending on who you have in your party, someone may or may not get to say their thing.

Moreover, NPCs have to be "valid for party dialogue". My guess is that means no sleeping, stunned, held, polymorphed, petrified or dead conversation partners

In several dialogues (especially romance), an explicit check is done to see if the (potential) talker isn't asleep.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 12:53 am

I think the interactions of NPC's from BG1 were handled fairly well. The surprise encounter of meeting Neb was well done, and you would have to be impressed with the reactions that come from both Xzar and Edwin, considering that they are both egocentric characters. The way that they pretend to ignore you during your first encounters is hilarious and just adds to the gaming experience.

Edwin · Post by **Edwin** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:38 am

IMO the interactions are good. What i really miss are certain NPC from BGI. I mean, i'd loved having Xzar, Kivan, Coran even in BGII. Even for Garrick...i don't understand the meaning of his apparition in BGII....

Firecc · Post by **Firecc** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:54 am

I agree that the interaction could be better. Not that it is bad but it could have been better. It might be technical reasons for it, but I think some NPCs interaction could be handled better.

I also miss more interaction with Garrick. I also wonder why it never was possible to romance Imoen. I think that would have been more *logical* than Jaheira who starts flirting with the main character (if male) after a few days. Ah, well...

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 2:48 am

Originally posted by Edwin:
What i really miss are certain NPC from BGI.

Whatever happened to most of them? I miss Xan, Shar-Teel and Kivan most.

Atrophos · Post by **Atrophos** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 9:44 am

Romance Imoen? ...dude, she's your half-sister. Ewww.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:25 pm

Originally posted by trunks:
They could have also let you talk to your party members like in Planescape torment. That would also be interesting.

Yea, that would have been cool. That was one of the features I liked in PS:T -

NO: "Morte... I don't mind you tagging along, but is there anything *else* you can do except chatter?"
Morte: "Hey! Chattering's my best trait." He rattles his teeth for a moment, then 'grins.' "Eh? Eh?"
NO: "Oh, *that's* good to hear."

viewer · Post by **viewer** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 7:35 pm

Yeah, I suppose I should be happy. I did miss meeting Kivan though and I guess I was sort of annoyed at having to kill Ajantis. I really liked him. I guess I would have prefered having a opion in the dialogue when we realise who we killed that went "Ajantis? I killed Ajantis... but that can't be. He was my friend! I would never kill him!" or something like that.

As for romancing Imoen... yeeeewwwww she is your sister. Half sister by blood but pretty much a full sister by the way she was raised with you. That would have been too weird. Although mind you the Jaheira thing was weird too. But I think they wanted a character of each alignment as your romance and Jaheira is the only female neutral aligned NPC in the game that you can take in your party.

White Rabbit · Post by **White Rabbit** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 9:31 pm

Romancing Jeheira is like romancing your aunt, only appealing to those in the south. But seriously anybody else find it odd that she hits on you after watching over you for all those years?

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Jul 20, 2001 2:11 am

Originally posted by trunks:
I was sort of annoyed at having to kill Ajantis. I really liked him. I guess I would have prefered having a opion in the dialogue when we realise who we killed that went "Ajantis? I killed Ajantis... but that can't be. He was my friend! I would never kill him!" or something like that.

Or at least the option to cast Raise Dead/Harper's Call/Resurrection on him...

This, of course, is the ever returning debate about plot versus Resurrection. Think about ignoring Jaheira's rant about balance and nature's way and simply Resurrecting Khalid.

*** SoA Mini-Spoiler Alert ***

Or Yoshimo...

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Jul 20, 2001 2:16 am

Originally posted by White Rabbit:
Romancing Jeheira is like romancing your aunt, only appealing to those in the south. But seriously anybody else find it odd that she hits on you after watching over you for all those years?

Well what puzzels me most about Jaheira and Khalid - is the fact that they are "old" friends of Gorion - but when you get them in BG1 - they are level 1.???

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Jul 20, 2001 6:42 am

Originally posted by Xandax:
Well what puzzels me most about Jaheira and Khalid - is the fact that they are "old" friends of Gorion - but when you get them in BG1 - they are level 1.???

Yup, while Gorion is at least level 9 (judging by the amount of Magic Missiles he throws).

They must have been farmers or so for most of their lives (yeah, right... Jaheira is of noble blood

) and taken up the life of adventurers not too far before Gorion's death...

incandescent one · Post by **incandescent one** » Fri Jul 20, 2001 7:26 am

Or more likely had a curse placed on them, so that they couldn't start gaining exp until they joined a Bhaalspawn's adventuring party.

But seriously, I never played BG1, should I go and play it even after every spoiler in BG2 has been revealed ?

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Fri Jul 20, 2001 7:37 am

Originally posted by transcendent two:
But seriously, I never played BG1, should I go and play it even after every spoiler in BG2 has been revealed ?

Definitely, yes.

BTW, anyone else notice that the theme music for ToB sounds familiar?

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Sojourner ]