Spells

Derrin · Post by **Derrin** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:38 pm

Which is the TOP3 spells recommended to be cast on certain type of monsters? The EmergencySet should I call it so...

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:14 pm

That is a very individual answer you can expect.

It can be divided into offensive, defensive or utility, and it depends on what monster we are talking about.

So basically, I have no "best" spells, I have some I tend to use depending on the various situations, but no "top3"

IHateUsernames · Post by **IHateUsernames** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:27 pm

Aye, I agree with Xandax.

Arrrr, I love TLAP day.

Now, where is me beauty?

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:33 pm

My nickle summary: It depends a lot on level & situations- some spells like Stoneskins will be a part of your defensive lineup as soon as you can cast them, others will be replaced with upgrades. Some spell types you should just about always have are:
Triggers & contingencies: infinitely useful - starting with level 4 minor sequencer
(Defensive) Stoneskins/Ironskins, true sight, dispel, invisibility of some kind, mirror image, clones (mislead / project / simulacrum)
(Offensive) Breach, magic bissile, some kind of area attack or disabler (web, horror, skull trap, fireball, cloudkill, abu-dalzim, etc.)

Those are only a start - lots of other very useful spells like Pro Magic Weapons, MMM, summons, etc.

The definitive guide is at Xyx's spell guide

Derrin · Post by **Derrin** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:24 pm

I think the most intricate spells are the area-effect ones. Once I cast Chaos and almost all the fellas in my party went mad.
All of them got killed except the PC (he remained with 1HP). I hate web, stinking cloud etc etc etc. They are useless. They rather hurt me than help me. Anyway I'm fine, even without their help

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:28 pm

Originally posted by Derrin
I think the most intricate spells are the area-effect ones. Once I cast Chaos and almost all the fellas in my party went mad.
All of them got killed except the PC (he remained with 1HP). I hate web, stinking cloud etc etc etc. They are useless. They rather hurt me than help me. Anyway I'm fine, even without their help

chaos is a great great spell...it sounds like some yuan ti casted it on you...

if you cast on the enemy, you will soon begin to love chaos...its lesser known benefit is that it is a script breaker, with a better save penalty than feeblemind...a script breaker spell, like chaos or feeblemind if you manage to stick a dragon or a mage with it, it breaks their scripts so they just sit around and sit there while aerie bashes it slowly to death...hehhehehhe....

stinky cloud and web are two incredibly wonderful spells...web is an absolute gem, since if you cast it at blue circle creatures, it does not make them hostile....and used in combo, web and stinky cloud are absolutely devistating, almost nothing in the game are immune to both spells, so either the web will get them or the stinky cloud will...

any hold over time spells are incredibly useful, toss in a cloudkill via wand to kill a room full of webbed or stinky clouded enemies...

many spells are useless, there are some incredibly powerful and useful ones...

useless ones like secret word, monster summoning, wyvern call, summon carrion crawler...

incredibly useful ones like teleport field, str spell, mislead, chain contingency...

don't bother reading the manual...read xyx's spell guide, and learn and understand spell casting...

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:04 pm

Cloudkill. To be abused on dragon's everywhere

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:26 pm

Top Three? Ridiculous. But off the top of my head, I suppose I'd have to give much respect to Doom, Harm, and Holy Word. Or were you limiting this topic to Wizard spells?

The great thing about Doom is that Minsc can cast it. It lowers your opponents' THAC0 as well as their saving throws, and if I'm not mistaken, it's also stackable.

Ron_Lugge · Post by **Ron_Lugge** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:04 am

Web + Free action (for melee fighters) = easy day

Elemental ZOOT · Post by **Elemental ZOOT** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:49 pm

well 4 defensive spells
Wail of the Banshee
Gate
Time Stop

Defensive
Pro.t from magical weapons
prot from normal weapons
improved mantle

Ron_Lugge · Post by **Ron_Lugge** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:58 pm

Originally posted by Elemental ZOOT
well 4 defensive spells
Wail of the Banshee
Gate
Time Stop

Defensive
Pro.t from magical weapons
prot from normal weapons
improved mantle

Er...

Did you mean offensive-defensive?

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 9:07 am

More spell stuff..

Area effect spells are a two-edged sword. With practice, they're great, but they can backfire on you if you're not careful. It's important to know which ones are party-friendly (no effect on party members) - like slow, malison, abi-dalzim,etc. and which ones are NOT - like sunfire, skull trap, cloudkill, etc.

Harm is a spell I have very mixed feelings about - it's a great effect IF it hits, but you can often end up with two rounds of a priest tied up trying to hit something to get that effect. I think the focus was arcane - but in the divine field - doom, draw upon holy might, stoneskins and the bugs are great spells. Doom IS stackable, unless you get the baldurdash fix (it's not supposed to be)

Elemental Zoot - Wail of the Banshee & Gate ? - geez, give me a break, those spells are NEVER worth memorizing for offense, wail of the banshee requires your mages be near the enemy - that's almost always a BAD idea, and Gate gets you a lame-o uncontrollable demon - not only are Planetars hugely superior - and share the same slots, even a lowly (divine) elemental, mord sword or skel warrior is a better summons for most fights . Trade Gate for Planetars, Wail of the Banshee for a useful spell like Abi-dalzim or Dragon breath.

Your defensive spells are even more surreal - Pro normal weapons is sort-of ok early, but a total waste most of the time. Mantle/Impr.mantle are just totally lame since both have enchantment limits - Pro magic weapons IS a great emergency spell for a mage (especially in a defensive chain contingency), but all of these are poor choices for the simple reason that most of the time your mages shouldn't be anywhere they're getting hit - there is an exception for fighter/mages who can make very good use of ProMW for some of the nastier fights.

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 9:29 am

Defensive: Stoneskin, Resist Fear (Cleric), Mass Invisibility

Offensive single target: Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb, Lower Resistance

Offensive area effect: Greater Malison, Abi Dalzim, Chaos

Summoning: Modenkainen's Sword, Hakeashaa, Skeletal Warrior

I'd add Insect Plague, too, as it is not only caster disabler but also shows the invisible thieves.

Derrin · Post by **Derrin** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:11 pm

Nephtu, great description you did there, it's truly a pleasure to read your posts. Now, about area effect spells, I must confess I made up my mind to give them one more chance. I memorized some low level garbage spells (and I'm expecting them not to cheat on me again

); anyway I'm ready for the worst.

Minerva, I totally agree with you. Insect plague is great! In fact, I think it's the best spell I ever used. Unfortunately I fired Jaheira. I had to

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:19 pm

jae is one of the best spell casters of the game...

insect swarm....natures beauty(even if a group of enemy make the save, they are ALL blinded, can't cast spells, penalty to attack, can't even see you to attack unless you are close) and elemental princes....incredibly powerful summons, dispell on hit, equal to 15th level fighter with major equipment...

nepthu, harm is a wonderful spell, if

you've lowered the targets magic resistance with a spell trigger lower resistance attack...(against dragons)

you have a fairly high level jaheira cast and use it...she has a good enough thaco so it hits...

or you lower resistance, then have aerie attack during timestop...a melee attack in timestop always hits...

you may serieously regret firing jaheira...your only alternative if you want the really wonderful druid spells is cernd...and his personality is even more annoying than jae...

spell casting is the single most annoying and fun thing about playing the game...annoying since it takes so long to figure them out, fun because once you do it becomes so much fun to play...

and once you try sorcerors..you just can't go back...they rock!!!

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:50 am

Sorcerers

For your first area effect fight, pick some relatively weak opponents, to get a feel for it. Remember, some creatures are immune to certain effects (spiders vs. web, undead vs. cloudkill) - others are just dead suckers for them , like Umber hulks and cloudkill. Remember, are of effect disablers like web/stinking cloud can be used to reduce the number of creatures you're fighting if facing a bunch of hostiles - keep some of them out of the action for at least part of the fight while you kill the rest. Plus, shooting webbed enemies (arrows, darts, bolts, fireballs, what have you) from a distance is fun.

Sorcerers are pretty nice.....since I hacked Edwin to one, I really appreciate the merits of that class. I wouldn't make a sorcerer first go through - the spell picks are REALLY critical, since you get max 5 different spells available on any level, and so you have to carefully force rank and have your other mages or scrolls make up for that. I still haven't really figured out wild mages yet.

On Harm, I'm mostly just too lazy to do all the stuff - I understand it's great merit is the ability to instantly (almost) kill even very high hitpoint creatures at low level, I just always seem to miss when I use it

Since I use melee heavy parties, we can basically beat down most creatures with only minimal dispelling. Eclipse is a bit of an exception ...ow. I'm learning a bit about spell protection removal in that one

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:47 pm

eclipse....ah yes...

try a contingency or chain contingency teleport field...eclipse is nasty due to the melee heavy eclipse fighters...teleport field is the best melee fighter disabler ever made...

Derrin · Post by **Derrin** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:30 pm

The happiest moment during a fight it's when I succeed disrupting enemy's spells.
I just love that

But sometimes it doesn't work although I succeed hitting them...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:34 pm

insect plague and storm of vengence...

you need to damage a cleric or mage every single second of their rounds, only insect plague and storm of vengence are the best spells for that, except nature's beauty which disrupts spell casting by BLINDING them...hehehhehehh!!!!!!!!!!!

try storm of vengence on a bunch of mages, you will be amazed...

creeping doom is just too slow...

also, bewarned...especially if you install tactics mod, a lot of mages use the "forcespell()" function in their scripts, so their spells can't be disrupted...especially liches...

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 11:09 am

Rats, Bugs and spell protections!

Well, I finally did win Eclipse, albeit with one casualty, Jaheira (bah!) - and she died due to my own stupidity. It was a huge opportunity to learn about spell protection and spell protection removal - you can't get through that fight without REALLY working both. Thanks hugely to Xyx's spell guide and User Unfriendly, much of whose excellent advice I roundly ignored. Anyway, we won largely because of three factors

1) Rats
Rat form melee via the cloak of the sewers - Deodand 12 Kensai thief, Jaheira, and Valygar were all rat formed. 90% resistance to ALL melee and missile damage is nothing to sneeze at. Combined with Defender of Easthaven offhand for Deodand, and Hardiness for Jaheira & Valygar, they were all completely immune to damage by any weapon.

2) Bugs
I used minimal scrolls for the fight. The only really cool one was a trigger for Jaheira with 3 X Summon Insects. Her first action was to throw this at the cleric - being the annoyingly slow spell it is, it took a while, but it took all three casters out once it hit, as the mages did their job below

3) Spell protections.
Melee were fairly light - Jaheira had shield of the Archons, Deodand had spell trap from SoM plus ProMagic Energy, all had 100% FR from items, skins, bless/chant, improved haste and minor globe of invulnerability.

The mages were a different story:
All had SI-abjure (breach, etc.), conjure (bugs!) and divination (to keep impr. invis shimmer), plus skins, spell trap, improved haste, mirror image, pro fire, and true sight Edwin also had SI-alter (Ruby ray) SI-nec(ADHW) and a cc on see enemy of Sword, Mass Invis, and Pro MW. Jan/Sola had ccs of Pro Energy, Pro Magic Energy and Pro MW. Triggers were 3 X remove magic for Edwin and 2 X Lower Res + Breach for Jan/Sola.

Once we started the fight, The melees charged the Anti-Paladin , Jaheira fired her triggered bugs, and Jan/Sola shot theirs (Cleric & druid). The casters charged the sorceror. I found out I should have used neg.plane protection - I thought the devils shade had to actually hit to level drain - I was wrong. Oh well, keep it going. Once Jan/Sola get to the sorceror, they trigger ccs with 3 X Ruby Ray each & dump his spell protections. Edwin triggers his Remove Magic at the melees and toasts their spell protections.

Jaheira is stunned, knocked back, dispelled and blinded, but unhurt. All three melee are chewing on her, but to no effect whatever. Valygar and Deodand are drained of a level or two, big deal. The sword is gamely chewing on a Devil Shade.

Total Eclipse! Sola keeps beating on the sorceror. Skins are still up, but the elemental damage from FoA is getting through, he's not casting anything I can see Bugs are on the way in both directions.

Eclipse ends. Bugs land both ways, but can't affect team Deodand's mages, yay!. Regen makes up for the bugs damage on the melees. Sorceror is backing away from Sola, Jan is fighting with an Unholy Avenger (Dispel is your friend) All three Eclipse casters get bugs, so they're out of it now. Edwin throws in another bugs for good measure. Eclipse Deva shows up. Sword and Deodand take on the Deva. Deodand ends up stunned and feared somehow. For some mysterious reason the enemy Deva casts Remove Fear on her.

Team Deodand Mages renew Pro MW and head to the aid of the melee squad, Edwin seems to be hung on casting for a bit.

Total Eclipse! Anti-Pal is looking pretty dented, still thrashing away on Jaheira. Sola has switcched to Ravager + GWW.

Eclipse ends. Everyone piles on him, including an attempt to imprison, which doesn't work - bummer - I may have had Jan move while casting. Anyway, the AP folds, Jaheira simultaneously loses hardiness and rat form (Dispel hit cause hardiness fades?) I can't get any defenses up on her, and she's dead in a flash. The Eclipse Sorcerer & Druid succumb to bugs, and our sword is holding off the Deva (!). Valygar unrats, and everyone just piles on the Berserker next. He goes down quick - I think he took a Vorpal hit.

Another eclipse lands in the middle of the fight, but the Kensai goes down fast, along with the bulk of the shades helped by an Abu-dalzim or two. Edwin's casting has come unstuck & he summons a planetar. The sword unsummons. The cleric has been attacking Edwin (innefectually) all along and his bugs ends - all the casters slam a magic missile onto him, to disrupt the casting, and melee are all over him like white on rice - the end is mercifully fast.

Then it's just clean up, loot, dispell and have the planetar cast some rez, restore and heals.

Other than just imitating someone's strategy, you CAN NOT win this fight without a good understanding of how spells work in BGII Soa/ToB - it's a brilliant piece of design. So, I urge you all to give it a try sometime - you'll learn a lot about the spell system.

Well, if you've made it this far, thanks for listening to me.