Leaving Sigil...

Skooter327 · Post by **Skooter327** » Wed Jan 01, 2003 11:06 pm

I'm about ready to leave Sigil for Ravel's Maze, and I am debating about what (& whom) to take along. The portal dialog warns me that I may not return for a *long* time, so I was wondering, will I ever return to Sigil, and can I still pick up items & party members left behind? (A simple yes or no requested)

Also, I remember hearing there were a few hard to find party members. How many are availible before one leaves Sigil? I have found: Morte, Annah, Dak'kon, Fall-From-Grace, Ingus, and Nordom.

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Wed Jan 01, 2003 11:58 pm

Yes, you can still return to Sigil, but it's going to be almost at the very end. You still could pickup your party members, just make sure you know where you left them. However, I wouldn't suggest leaving any of your party members behind and then pick them up later when you get back to Sigil because it is a REALLY LONG time before you return. By then, party members you've left behind will not pick up all the experiences, and then they'll practically be useless in combat. Also, don't leave any important item in Sigil.

As for the hard to find party members, you've already found one: Nordom. There's one other, spoilers ahead, do not read if you don't want to know:

The other hard to find NPC Is Vhailor. He can be found in Curst Underground Prison near the portal when you leave the prison for the Outlands.

Skooter327 · Post by **Skooter327** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:28 am

Originally posted by humanflyz
As for the hard to find party members...

Actually, I have found Vhailor too. Finding him raised the question on leaving Sigil. I considered going back and leaving a place for him so that I wouldn't have to just dump off someone else in some dark prison cell; I also like to have access to all the party members just in case I change my mind and want one back.

While Vhailor wasn't really that hidden, I can see how Nordom would be hard to find. Are you ever given any clue about the Modron Maze? I just bought the toy, asked the Modrons in the Brothel about it, and gave it a shot. I had to map the maze out on graphing paper just to be sure I hit every room. Of course, Nordom was in the last room I checked

, but by then there were enough clues about him to keep me looking.

Who is better to have with between Nordom and Ingus? How about between Morte and Vhailor?

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:16 am

Same here, had to draw out all the rooms, took a while though.

As for who's better, depends on the player and such. But between Ignus and Nordom, from a purely combat perspective, I'd say that Nordom's better, simply because he's the only NPC with ranged attack. But if you're a mage, and are willing to give up some hit points, then Ignus can teach you some pretty good fire spells.

As for Morte and Vhailor, I'd say go with Morte, because he's got a more interesting personality and story to tell. The problem with Vhailor is that almost half of the dialogue options with him will either turn him hostile against you or kill him. Even though you get some experience for his death, he won't be much use. But if you don't want to "talk" Vhailor to death, then he's a pretty good fighter.

That's just my 2 cents.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:32 am

SPOILER...
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Concerning the Modron Maze: everytime you reset it, the maze shifts. You can only find Nordom if you use the greatest difficulty level in the Maze. He will always be in a room whose only door is in its southeast wall--which means it will be accessible on the northwest wall, from the outside. I've always found him along a lengthy path to the north and west, but others may have different experiences. The Wizard, by contrast, is in a room whose only entrance is on its southwestern wall. This means an outside party will find him by entering a room to the northeast.

Skooter327 · Post by **Skooter327** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 5:12 pm

Originally posted by humanflyz
...Ignus can teach you some pretty good fire spells.

I would assume these are the fire spells that Ingus comes with stock, right? I've been learning Dak'kon's spells as my wisdom allows, but I haven't explored Ingus' dialog much. Vhailor's dialig options included a question about instructing tNO with the axe in his dialoge options, but he refused. Do you suppose there was an attribute score too low?

Concerning the Modron Maze...

Did you have to map the maze by hand as well, fable?

Is there anything of interest (a "mini-boss," perhaps?) to be found in the lower difficulty mazes?

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 3:01 am

Regarding getting Vhailor to teach you the axe skill, in order to get this dialog option, you must be a fighter. Vhaillor will refuse if your law rating is not high enough (you need to have a lawful alignment, obviously).

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:58 pm

There are lots of different questions in this message thread. The following things come to mind:

When you reach the final chapter, the best NPCs to have in your party, in my opinion, are Morte, Dak'kon, Annah, Fall-From-Grace, and Nordom. I can't say more without spoiling it.

I don't think it's necessary to do a lot of fighting in the game (not the way I play, anyway), so I don't think you need to have someone like Vhailor in your party for his fighting skills. In my opinion, you need a better reason than that to let anyone into your party. Having said that, you'll find that Annah's backstabbing, Nordom's crossbows, Morte's near-invincibility (with heart charms and clot charms), Dak'kon's buffing spells, and Fall-From-Grace's healing, lightning, and spiritual hammer spells are a nice supplement to whatever skills the Nameless One has. I give some of the best items in the game to the NPCs to get the most bang for the buck. For example, I give the Aegis of Torment to Nordom to push his CON past 20 so that he can regenerate hit points. I give Annah the Tattoo of the Warrior and the Tattoo of the Supreme Warrior to push her STR up to 20 so she can do some serious damage. Dak'kon is easy to buff up, so I let him read and memorize some of the best scrolls in the game. When the NPCs say they will fight to protect the Nameless One, they have the power to back it up.

Nordom is one of the most useful fighters you can have in your party because of the lethality of his crossbows. I like to equip him with the Lens of Seeing Double and let him use his endless supply of bolts, except in those rare situations where it's helpful to use more powerful bolts, such as the Whistling Bolts of Doom. There are a couple of situations in which you might encounter a seemingly endless horde of monsters (if you stick around long enough to let them respawn), and Nordom could prove to be the most effective Fighter in your party.

On a related note, one good reason for exploring more than one dungeon in the Rubikon is that you can find a lot of cool random objects, including lenses and crossbow bolts for Nordom. You can also sell them for a lot of copper if you don't need them. Besides, exploring dungeon after dungeon is what adventuring is all about. Lots of monsters! Lots of experience! Evil wizards! Magic items! Bags of coins! Clues! Goodies! Need I say more?

I also use the Rubikon quite a lot as a "teleporter" while I'm in Sigil when I want to jump from place to place without walking to the edge of the map. It also saves game time by reducing travelling time. Just keep the Modron Cube and a Portal Gem in your inventory and enjoy the convenience.

There's no reason why you can't let Vhailor and Ignus into your party temporarily, then exhaust their dialogue on the spot (and get the bonuses), and then dismiss them. There are a couple of situations in which their presence can make things interesting, but I still favor the other NPCs. In my opinion, Vhailor and Ignus simply aren't as effective, comforting, and interesting as the rest, and as others have pointed out, having them around is actually quite dangerous.

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:30 am

Originally posted by VonDondu
There's no reason why you can't let Vhailor and Ignus into your party temporarily, then exhaust their dialogue on the spot (and get the bonuses), and then dismiss them. There are a couple of situations in which their presence can make things interesting, but I still favor the other NPCs. In my opinion, Vhailor and Ignus simply aren't as effective, comforting, and interesting as the rest, and as others have pointed out, having them around is actually quite dangerous.

Taking them in for the xp and then letting them go is what I always do.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:22 am

Just so there isn't any misunderstanding, I don't want to discourage anyone from letting Vhailor and Ignus remain in their party. There's actually one situation in particular where having Vhailor in your party can be extremely beneficial. If you like him more than you like some of the other NPCs, by all means let him stay in your party.

But I will say this: there is a very good reason not to have Ignus in your party when you start the final chapter. Just take my word for it.

Skooter327, I've just thought about your situation, and it brings back memories. Namely, you haven't even left Sigil yet. There sure are a lot of interesting things in store for you.

Skooter327 · Post by **Skooter327** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:16 am

Originally posted by VonDondu
Magic items! Bags of coins! Clues! Goodies! Need I say more?

I also use the Rubikon quite a lot as a "teleporter"...
Just keep the Modron Cube and a Portal Gem in your inventory and enjoy the convenience.

Actually, yes; can anything be done with these Rubikon items? I haven't found anyone yet that will buy them from me. Do the items do anything?

I too have been using the Rubikon as a teleporter. It works great! I wonder if they intended it to be used as such? Is there any reason to carry these two items outside of Sigil?

Originally posted by VonDondu
In my opinion, Vhailor and Ignus simply aren't as effective, comforting, and interesting as the rest...

Skooter327, I've just thought about your situation, and it brings back memories. Namely, you haven't even left Sigil yet. There sure are a lot of interesting things in store for you.

Actaully, I have left Sigil--I played up to Vhailor and considered going back to leave room for him in my party--but I'm not that far past Sigil. Perhaps I have played too many games like IwD, but I somtimes have to remind myself to roleplay Ps:T. I've just gotten so accutsomed to being thourough and getting all of the "goods." After I thought about it, were I in tNO's shoes, I would've had Vhailor join me as well, but the game doesn't allow a party of seven--much less eight. At any rate, I'm glad I went back, because I was able to figure out some things in Sigil that had me stumped before. Which raises another question...

Regarding factions: Once I join a faction, can I unjoin it or do I have to join another one to get out of the first one. If I have left one faction for another, can I come back and join the previous one? Are there many benefits to faction memebership, aside from access to buy items from thier vaults (also, the Dustmen have the "Dead Truce," correct?).

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:26 pm

As far as I know, the "Rubikon items" (bags of coins, goodies, magic items) are worthless. Keep in mind that the dungeons in the Rubikon are merely simulations (for research purposes). The monsters are constructs, and some of the treasure is fake. But on the other hand, the experience points you earn, the damage you sustain, and much of the treasure you find are as real as it gets.

The portal gems, the scrolls, the lenses, the bolts, the rods of modron might, and the mirrors are all very cool and they're worth a pretty penny.

The Modron Cube cannot be used outside of Sigil, so you might as well store it somewhere when you leave Sigil and retrieve it when you return (if you're still interested in using it).

Once you join a faction, I think the only way to stop being a member of it is to join a different faction. Once you renounce your membership in a faction, they (understandably) will never let you back in. Keep in mind that some of the factions oppose each other. Disloyalty on your part ruins everything.

There are a number of advantages to joining a faction. First of all, believing in something is an end in itself. There are also special items and special services available to faction members. From a "meta-gaming" perspective, joining a faction quite often provides you as a player with more quests to undertake. In some cases, you can even betray the faction you have joined. Finally, in some cases, joining a faction makes it easier to proceed with the game. For example, before you can leave Sigil, you need to find a way to enter the private Sensatorium at the Festhall. Joining the Sensates is one way to gain access (there are other ways as well).

Robnark · Post by **Robnark** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:13 pm

Originally posted by VonDondu
For example, before you can leave Sigil, you need to find a way to enter the private Sensatorium at the Festhall. Joining the Sensates is one way to gain access (there are other ways as well).

since you can get into the rooms and private sensorium without joining, what benefits are there to joining the sensates other than the special touch thingy? i usually join the godsmen (for weapons and a wisdom bonus), but what other factions are good?

Skooter327 · Post by **Skooter327** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:54 pm

How many factions are availible in Sigil? There's a total of 15 in the game, right?

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 9:50 pm

Let's see, here are some factions off the top of my head:

1) Anarchists: can join by talking to Saros or Beda-Lin.
2) Dustment: can join by talking to Emoric in Gathering Dust Bar and completing his quests.
3) Godsmen: can join by talking to head priest.
4) Sensate: can join by talking to Splinter.

That's all I can think of right now, but I think there's a few more.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 1:59 am

You can also join the Chaosmen by talking to Barking-Wilder.

Skooter327 · Post by **Skooter327** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 8:57 am

Originally posted by Sojourner
You can also join the Chaosmen by talking to Barking-Wilder.

He denied me membership, must tNO be of chaotic alignment to join?

Originally posted by humanflyz
if you're a mage, and are willing to give up some hit points, then Ignus can teach you some pretty good fire spells.

What determines how many spells Ingus will teach tNO? Dak'kon's spells seem to be based on wisdom, but Ingus has only taught me two spells, and tells me that I can't sacrifice any more. I'd like to learn more than that before I cut him loose.