Tactics for a F/T facing a Mage or F/M

Indra · Post by **Indra** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:16 pm

My first post on the best BGII forum on the web..I've been lurking around here for a while, finally have a question that requires your indulgence..
I've played BGII through TOB twice before, once as a K/M all the way through (now he was a demi-god!!) and once as a M/C til the Underdark. (Wanted some hand to hand action, so I quit...). I'm now playing a Half-Elf Kensai/Thief Multi (Hacked with Sk..Yes, I know.. .

..). He is a perfect Mage Killer
with 150 in Stealth. However, yesterday my party (Me @ Lvl 9/10, Minsc @ 10, Viccy @ 10, Aerie @ 7/7) went to the Astral Prison. I must have reloaded the first and last battles
at least 7-8 times..and it got me thinking. We all know the Cambion can see invisible, even with a cloak of non-detection on. With Sneak Attack negated, what does a F/T do against a F/M, his only credible threat? My main fear is not Protection from Magical Weapons/Normal Weapons which wear off. It's Stoneskin. I CANNOT afford to remove 8-9 stoneskins in a contingency while he casts power words and Abu Dalzims on me. So my question is:

1) What weapons punch through Stoneskin? I've heard that some weapons dealing elemental damage punch through Stoneskin disrupting SpellCasting - specifically Stonefire. Can someone
confirm this? Also, are there any swords/other weapons that punch though Stoneskin and cause spell disruption? I could use any weapons with my char. He has an
obscene THACO already and can get off at least 2 attacks/round with Belm in the off hand even without any skill points in a weapon...

2) Are there specific tactics a F/T can use against a F/M I should know about? Other than running and hiding waiting for protections to wear off?

Many thanks for the information....

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 3:15 pm

I am trying to solo a halfling assassin throughh SoA and ToB at the moment so I know the what difficulties you are talking about. I did the astral prison quite early and had problems with the last battle.
Since you are a multi you are not only a theif but also a fighter. I suggest you take him on as a fighter. That must be the reason you picked a fighter/thief no?
For a single classed theif traps get the job done.

ForgotenWarrior · Post by **ForgotenWarrior** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 5:22 pm

try the flail of ages , that should disrupt the enemy's spell casting(the acid damage), just like when I was playin an archer and I shot acid arrows at mages, they couldnt even cast ONE spell at me heh

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 8:04 pm

Neb's Nasty Cutter does poison damage which will disrupt spells on successive rounds. Also it is a dagger, so it has a low speed factor. This means it will hit early in the round before most spells go off.

However, I think it only has a limited number of charges and you have to be evil to use it. Not sure if it can be recharged...

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 10:17 pm

The Warden can be hit with normal weapons - so use ice or acid arrows against him, or even arrows of dispelling. BTW, the sleep cloud from the Staff of Air works on him - launch a couple at him while remaining out sight to put him (and companions) out of commission.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 12:59 am

"My main fear is not Protection from Magical Weapons/Normal Weapons which wear off. It's Stoneskin"

hop over to watchers keep, get firetooth, pickpocket...heheheh....and fire normal bolts thru it while whirlwinded....

normal bolts go right thru the prot magic weapons, and the bow adds fire damage, elemental damage, which goes right thru stoneskin...this is like firing normal arrows thru gesen, goes right thru stoneskin and prot..yes, i have tested it...

"Neb's Nasty Cutter does poison damage which will disrupt spells on successive rounds. Also it is a dagger, so it has a low speed factor. This means it will hit early in the round before most spells go off.

However, I think it only has a limited number of charges and you have to be evil to use it. Not sure if it can be recharged..."

stick in bag of holding and it is instantly recharged...may i suggest stealing the scarlet ninja to from jonluv in copper coronet?

install wes ease of use bonus merchants, that sword goes right thru stoneskin like crazy...you do have use any item, right???

now for some more fun...

let jan join party, take his clothes, (no i am not joking...hehehhe)kick him out... and steal the defender of east haven from jonluv,

dual wield scarlet ninja to and defender, wear jans clothes, (phew!!! rancid gnome smell.....urk...) and you are about 50-70 immune to weapons...hehehheheh add hardiness and you get totally immune...

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 3:45 am

I am not a f/t and he wasn't a f/m but still. Pretty good way to handle a mage wouldn't you say?
High level assassin using staff of the ram... it will get better when I get to ToB and can upgrade the thing.
My solo Assassin is doing just fine. Get your hands on SoTM and stoneskin is no longer a problem.

Leonardo · Post by **Leonardo** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 4:57 am

Can't he be Breached?

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 9:01 am

I find somewhat difficult to focus Indra's problem, and I guess that the others have the same problem as well.

Let's try to sort things out.

@Leonardo: (Aerie 7/7 is not very likely to cast breach, I guess)

He (she?) (Indra I mean), obviously, can't get the Staff of The Magi or even the Nasty Cutter or Firetooth while doing the Astral prison... heh

I would suggest Melf Minute Meteors then.
These thingies hit almost everything, Kangaxx comes to mind.
Phew... I didn't even notice the Astral prison playing with a Blade, it was a walk in the park.
Aerie should be able to cast MMM, and if she is not, this is a major tactical error.
I bet Indra didn't do it on purpose. Fix it.
CLUA a scroll in at once.

So, for the answers:
1) Really, Melf Minute Meteors is all you need. They happen to be one of the best weapon in the game. Ok obviously, a F/T can't use them. Heh, that's why you're bringing a party with you, not?

But if you really want to hurt all of your stoneskinned foes with your pc because it's personal, there are many weapons that do elemental damage. Name your favourite weapons (the ones you're specialized in), and I'll try to point you to the "elemental" version of them.
2) Rely on party support. That's all I can think of.... Not good at playing F/T, sorry

Leonardo · Post by **Leonardo** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 9:22 am

Cast via scroll.

If he's asking for a weapon that will get through stoneskin, he sure can afford some 3 Breach scrolls, more than enough in any battle that involves just one mage.

[edit] Viccy can throw in a Dispel Magic, also.

Indra · Post by **Indra** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:22 pm

Gentlemen,
Thank you all for your suggestions. Can you believe I played through the whole of SOA/TOB first time with my Kensai Mage without a single MMM spell? Never needed one. And Imoen was level 14 by the time I rescued her. Amazing how tactics change when you're not a K/M. Never used them with my M/C either. Hmmm....; Maybe that's why......I'll get a couple for Aerie right away. And yes, Aerie was too low level to cast breach..

Sorry I was not very clear in my previous post. I was just wondering what a F/T could do to take on a F/M when his protections were ALREADY up. If he dosen't see you first..the fight is over w the first backstab anyway. I did get the warden finally with just muscle power, but only because he has contingencies at 25% and I got a lucky critical. But that was the first fight so far I felt I should not have gotten into..and it got me thinking about alternatives to the backstab..
UserUnFriendly, can you steal from the Bonus Merchants/Watcher's Keep? When I go to the transaction screen, I see the Sell and identify buttons, but no button for stealing. I always thought you could not steal from Bonus Merchants, Ribald and various Temples. Even in Watcher's Keep, Sister Garlena does not have a steal button..
SerjeLeBlade, my profs are: ++ Katana, ++ Longsword, +++ Dual-Weild. ( I think I'll change them to ++ Dual Weild and + Scmitar. I mean, what's an Fighter/Thief
trained in the Oriental style without proficiency in the Ninja-To?). So far, the mage killer weapons I know of are:

1) Firetooth (35K..

...)
2) Stonefire
3) Flametongue? Will this work on Stoneskins? (Any other Longswords/katanas/Ninja-Tos that work? Spectral Brand is not an option right now...)
4) MMM
5) MM (This bypasses Stoneskin, right?)
6) Any area affect spells...cloudkill, stinking cloud, sleep..

Thanks everyone for the replies...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:25 pm

melf+g deathblow+ improved haste....

machine gun of doom.....

a fighter mage with a few g deathblows and melf spell and improved haste is almost unbelievably evil, 8 melfs a round, each hit while g deathblow is active will instakill all the cambions pets.....and the elementals and wyvern....

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:29 pm

"UserUnFriendly, can you steal from the Bonus Merchants/Watcher's Keep? When I go to the transaction screen, I see the Sell and identify buttons, but no button for stealing. I always thought you could not steal from Bonus Merchants, Ribald and various Temples. Even in Watcher's Keep, Sister Garlena does not have a steal button.. "

youre right, i never tried, but hey, money exploits abound anyway....

get a good item, sell to black market, use potions to raise thief skills steal, sell back, etc...

Koveras · Post by **Koveras** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 3:28 pm

A boring tactic is to simply run away and sleep, if your not concerned about time. All(?) protections will wear off in a couple rests.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:57 pm

or hit watchers keep and get wands of spell strike, at least a few before level 4, i think....

great wands, well worth making the trip...

Rudradaman · Post by **Rudradaman** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 9:40 pm

|Flaw^ · Post by **|Flaw^** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 11:46 am

Or you could use a wand of cloudkill if you have one?

Takes time to, but it will work eventually i guess?

Or some monster summonings? To lett his spells be cast om them.
I find spiderspawn a good monster summoning myself.

Good luck!

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 12:26 pm

Originally posted by |Flaw^
Or you could use a wand of cloudkill if you have one?

Takes time to, but it will work eventually i guess?

The thing with casting area affect spells is that the cambion (or anyone else for that matter) are bound (sometimes they don't but mostly they do) to come hunting for you. And they would therefore not saty in teh cloud kill area.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 11:40 pm

Originally posted by garazdawi
The thing with casting area affect spells is that the cambion (or anyone else for that matter) are bound (sometimes they don't but mostly they do) to come hunting for you. And they would therefore not saty in teh cloud kill area.

Not so with the Sleep Cloud cast from the Staff of Air - which makes it so good here. A couple of these thrown in the direction of the Cambion will pretty much keep him down while you turn him into a pin cushion. If you're soloing or playing with a low-level party here, it can be a life-saver. It also helps if you wait to take out the Cambion and let him battle some of the inmates first - weakening him a bit.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:36 am

follow thru with web, few indeed can resist a web, hold based and sleep cloud based....this will either knock out or hold every thing in area,,,,,recently discovered web will hold inquisitors and fighters with short sword of arbane,.....only free action spell or spell hold ring will make you immune, besides over 100 percent magic resist....