Thief cheese+tactics wanted.

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:57 am

User! And everybody else, I haven´t really played a thief that much, but a moment ago I started a ToB game with a swashie. What a shame for illasera her battle against me lasted no longer than ½ a second! Three snares did it, the easiest way I ever defeated her, and I have done so many times, believe if you will!
So now I´m just looking for more thief cheese, or tactics, but please, don´t bother posting something that include the use of scrolls. (UAI tactics is ok, I just don´t use scrolls that much)
Also, what in particular is the best weapons for a swashie with 2 * in long sword, short sword, scimitar and 2 weapon fighting style?

Alson · Post by **Alson** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:51 pm

What mods do you have installed?

Most of the ToB thief tactics involves a heavy (ab)use of Use Any Item.

You can give your Swashbuckler:

Immunity to Magic
almost immunity to physical damage
A THACO of a level 20 Fighter
30 Auto hits for one round
Rock bottom AC
Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting scrolls (sorry, had to put that in )

There are many more... Just from the top of my head.
Oh... one more thing.
Spike traps kill EVERYTHING.
Well, there are two type of creatures immune, but they are wimps anyway.

MasterDarkNinja · Post by **MasterDarkNinja** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:58 pm

you should start a game in SOA first to get some good swashbuckler stuff (especially if your soloing like you sound like you are).
here's a cheese cheat to get an immortal warrior out of your swashbuckler.
get a scroll of shapechange from a magic shop. with the "use item ability" use the scroll and then use the "ctrl + r" cheat on your swashbuckler immediately (you must edit the readme file properly to let cheats work for this healing cheat to work). now the shapechange spell will last forever due to a bug in BG2.
now you can change into a greater werewolf and you will regenerate your hp SO fast that not even the strongest enemies will be able to knock you down (unless an imstant death spell is used).
there is one drawback to this though, some enemies have the ability to dispell your current changed form that you are in, this will stop the regeneration, you must tell your hero to transform into the werewolf form again for it work again.

note: I might of recovered HP so fast since I had the ring of gaxx on my swashbuckler that might of stacked regeneration. (I doubt it since I heard that regeneration doesn't stack).

Alson · Post by **Alson** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 2:14 pm

If you cheat, you might as well use SK and equip the MINHP01 item that prevents you from dying...

For me, cheese is fun (to a certain limit), but cheating is not.

But, if it's fun for you, then by all means, do it!

BTW - If you have several Regenration items/spells on, the Game Engine will use the one with the highest rate.
But...
And here comes the cheese...
The game will stack things with the same regeneration rate!

So, the regeneration spell will stack with itself, two rings of regeneration stacks, and...
Cheese #2...
Improved Haste doubles your regeneration rate!

Cheese is so fun sometimes...

hwttdz · Post by **hwttdz** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 7:33 pm

Put a third * in two weapon, and take montolio's cloak for equal thaco with left and right hands. Tesner's transformation sounds good.

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 10:26 am

Alson: Agree, cheating is no fun. Cheese is merely a way of twisting the gameplay.

I have Sola, Kelsey, Tashia, Ease-of-Use, Ritual, and SK installed IIRC. My current party is me, sarevok and sola, but I need a cleric too, to dispel magic.

@Aslon: (again) The list you provide would be exceptionally interresting, if you just listed the way of doing those cheesy beef-ups!

I don´t mind using SK to get the right weapons, but don´t mind posting ideas about using big metal or the biggest swords, just because thieves got UAI. It has to be rpg-wise!
BTW, I have to say that I absolutely love the ToB traps! They are just worthy of so ------------------ much cheese!

Alson · Post by **Alson** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 12:11 pm

Originally posted by Jaesha

@Aslon: (again) The list you provide would be exceptionally interresting, if you just listed the way of doing those cheesy beef-ups!

No problem! Here you go (And it's Alson, BTW

):
(Some items spoilers...)
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Magic Immunity
~~~~~~~~~~
Abuse UAI and equip the following items:
Carsomyr - 50%
Human Flesh Armor - 20%
Gaxx - 10%
Sledarine - 10%
Now that's sums up to 90%.
Sp, be good at the selfish test in hell...
Voila! 100% MR!

Add another 5% from the machine of lum the man uf you're a fanatic.

Next....

Almost Immunity to Physical Damage
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Again, abusing UAI, equip:
Jansen-Wear - 25% to physical damage,
Defender of Easthaven - another 20%,
Ascension powers (Evil) - A final 25%,
Which sums up to 70% Damage Resistance.
Not bad... shrugs 35 damage out of a 50 damage blow!

If only you were a Fighter/Thief, you could throw a Hardiness in and it'll be 110%...

Carzy THACO
~~~~~~~~~~
Read a Tenser's Transformation scroll.

30 Auto hits for one round
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You picked some Whirlwinds for your swashy?
Good!
Cast Timestop from a scroll.
That'll give you three rounds of Auto-Hits bashing (because all attacks are auto hits during timestops).
Three rounds means three Whirlwinds, which is eventually 30 Auto Hits.

Rock bottom AC
~~~~~~~~~~~
Come'on... Too easy!

Base AC = 10
-4 from 18 Dex = 6
-1 Initial AC for being a Swashbuckler = 5
-1 AC every 5 lvls, a total of a -6 bonus at lvl 30 = -1
-2, Ring of Gaxx = -3
-1, Ring of Earth Control = -4
-1, Cloak of Sewers = -5
-3, Amulet of Master Harper = -8
-1, Dusty Rose Ion Stone = -9
-1, Wonderous Gloves = -10
-5, Darksteel Shield = -15
-6, Greater Evasion = -21

Armor is for wimps!

Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting scrolls
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Self evident, isn't it?

There are many more, it's just out of the top of my head...

Use Any Item is soooooooooo twisted!

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Wed Oct 02, 2002 2:13 am

Alson's bang on about the scrolls Jaesha, they really turn thieves into something else -- stoneskin and protection from magical weapons can be hoarded throughout the game and can save your neck later on.

And of course mislead for all non swashy thieves...

Plus time TRAPS (etc)...thieves are my absolute favourite class.

(I know you said you don't like using scrolls, but IMHO you'd be really missing out. Money's no problem in ToB, go to that guy who sells scroll of every spell and SPEND SPEND SPEND)

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Wed Oct 02, 2002 10:43 am

Originally posted by kopywrite
(I know you said you don't like using scrolls, but IMHO you'd be really missing out. Money's no problem in ToB, go to that guy who sells scroll of every spell and SPEND SPEND SPEND)

Allright, I´ll give it a shot!

Aslon

: 90 % MR for a swashie would be way cool! And with my 250 in det. illousion, wiz´s wouldn´t stand a chance.

p.s; keep em coming!

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 1:18 am

another interesting abuse, i have never tested, since i dont like bards....

equipp ring of wiz or netheril circlet, and you get spell slots at 7,8,9 th level....you have memorized 7,8,9th level spells, right? even if you cant cast them normally, you can still memorize them...

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 4:57 am

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
another interesting abuse, i have never tested, since i dont like bards....

equipp ring of wiz or netheril circlet, and you get spell slots at 7,8,9 th level....you have memorized 7,8,9th level spells, right? even if you cant cast them normally, you can still memorize them...

And maybe cast them through that weird Kelsey's amulet that does Nahal's Reckless Dweomer?

(still untested too)

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Sun Oct 27, 2002 5:38 am

Swashbucklers a great class. I like their powercurve aswell... if you solo you are just powerful enough all the time.
You gotta love their AC. Whoever said AC doesn't matter should solo a swashbuckler. Basically only critical hits will touch you if you equip wisely...and then stoneskin will soak that up.

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Tue Oct 29, 2002 4:50 am

In my last game, I turned Imoen into a Swashbuckler.
Now I have the impression that when she's double wielding, her (normal) traps do double damage.
Or is the swashbucler bonus that spills through?
Don't know

All I know actually is that Imoen's traps now do much more damage than Jan's!
Did anybody else experience something similar?

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Tue Oct 29, 2002 10:13 am

3 normal and 2 spiketraps!! Overkill eh?
I seem to recall that at higher levels the second damage has to be saved against or it kills. I have killed adamantite golems with just one trap I think.

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Tue Oct 29, 2002 10:52 am

Uhm, how tricky.
I'm not very used to play with very high level characters, and for obvious reasons I never had a single-class thief of a level as high as Imoen is now in my party before.
But it's not like that Jan's traps, who is 15th level as a thief now, are now dealing the same amount of damage that Imoen's trap used to do when she was 15th level before.
Or that her traps are doing something more now that she's 20th level.
The numbers (and the difference between them) look pretty always the same. Imoen usually does something like 20(+20), Jan has an average of 12(+12).
I should experiment more.

Koveras · Post by **Koveras** » Tue Oct 29, 2002 4:21 pm

Spoilers:

If you have Sola mod, there's a lich in the docks who have Cloak of Balduran, it adds 25% mr, so some of the items Alson listed cna be traded for things more useful. I love that cloak.

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:00 pm

Originally posted by Koveras
Spoilers:

If you have Sola mod, there's a lich in the docks who have Cloak of Balduran, it adds 25% mr, so some of the items Alson listed cna be traded for things more useful. I love that cloak.

Cheese: If u have BG1 u can get the cloak of balduran in there nad then when u import the char into BG2, right after the game strts and there is only a black screen. Press "Space" and take oput what ever stuff you want to keep from BG1

ps keep cloak of balduran and a certain drows equipment

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Wed Oct 30, 2002 2:55 pm

Originally posted by garazdawi

Cheese: If u have BG1 u can get the cloak of balduran in there nad then when u import the char into BG2, right after the game strts and there is only a black screen. Press "Space" and take oput what ever stuff you want to keep from BG1 ps keep cloak of balduran and a certain drows equipment

Off topic!!

.......Or just Sk it on....

I find it seriously disturbing that single-class thieves are left so much alone...