Today, my highschool held a memorial over the intercom. It condemned the attacks as cowardly, and promoted tolerance of ethnic groups. It was followed by a minute of silence.
My response, was not a happy one. The only thing I agreed with was that tolerance was important.
First, Cowardly. I admit attacks on civilians are cowardly, no argument, but it does take a fair degree of courage to sacrifice yourself towards a cause you believe in.
The minute of silence is what I did NOT like. A minute of silence is given to the men and women who died protecting our freedom. There are hundreds of thousands of them. It was, and should be the utmost sign of respect for those who made the ultimate sacrifice.
Today however, I think it was soiled. A minute of silence given to 3000 ppl who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time is wrong. I realize they are civilians and didn't deserve or expect to die. However, let us consider the fire bombing of Dresden, where 18,000 to 30,000 German civilians were killed, the bombings of London, ( I don't know the stats) and the use of Atomic weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. These events were indeed long ago and perhaps out of common memory, but recently, hell, daily, in africa thousands die, I remember off hand a million a year die from famine. We don't remember the war crimes in the Balkans, or the eradication of the Tootsies.
In no way do I say 9/11 is acceptable, tolerable or positive in any way. It was a tragedy the west has never seen. Done to itself. Greater attrocities have been commited by the Western powers, and around the world. What makes the 3000 G7 civilians worth remembering more then any one else?
Thats my opinion, I don't want to attack, if you disagree with what I say, post. If you need to flame me, attack me with a PM, I don't want this topic to be a flame fest.
- Obs.
Apropriate Response to 9/11
Apropriate Response to 9/11
The waves came crashing in like blindness.
So I just stood and listened.
So I just stood and listened.
Well my college didnt do anything about Sept. 11th. The only reminders I got that it was Sept. 11th was when I logged on to the internet, saw the AOL intro and all the stuff here at SYM.
But, the whole recognition thing, about 9/11 getting noticed more than the other genocides and tragedies is addressed in Fas' Sept. 11th thread. I agree in the fact that other losses of life should also be recognized. I mean East Timor lost about 20% of its population in a genocide. 20%. Whats 20% of the US population? A whole hell of a lot. We would certainly pay attention to that loss, for sure. But do we recognize the loss in East Timor? NO! Absolutely not. In fact 90% (roughly) of the faculty and students didnt even know anything about East Timor, ALONE. Let alone the fact there was a genocide there.
But that does not mean mourning is not necessary for 9/11. The fact is that it is necessary. It affected so many people around the world. I think it is necessary to keep in mind that the world is fragile and people can be stupid. This is important. We are all victims of the human race's faultiness.
It is important to remember all the stupid things that we humans have done to eachother and the world. The loss is truly heartbreaking to say the least. And I mourn for everything weve done wrong in general today....not JUST the tragedy of 9/11. We simply wont have the time to mourn the individual lossesof life around the world. I think maybe it would be right to just mourn for everything today.
But, the whole recognition thing, about 9/11 getting noticed more than the other genocides and tragedies is addressed in Fas' Sept. 11th thread. I agree in the fact that other losses of life should also be recognized. I mean East Timor lost about 20% of its population in a genocide. 20%. Whats 20% of the US population? A whole hell of a lot. We would certainly pay attention to that loss, for sure. But do we recognize the loss in East Timor? NO! Absolutely not. In fact 90% (roughly) of the faculty and students didnt even know anything about East Timor, ALONE. Let alone the fact there was a genocide there.
But that does not mean mourning is not necessary for 9/11. The fact is that it is necessary. It affected so many people around the world. I think it is necessary to keep in mind that the world is fragile and people can be stupid. This is important. We are all victims of the human race's faultiness.
It is important to remember all the stupid things that we humans have done to eachother and the world. The loss is truly heartbreaking to say the least. And I mourn for everything weve done wrong in general today....not JUST the tragedy of 9/11. We simply wont have the time to mourn the individual lossesof life around the world. I think maybe it would be right to just mourn for everything today.
“Caw, Caw!” The call of the wild calls you. Are you listening? Do you dare challenge their power? Do you dare invade? Nature will always triumph in the end.
[color=sky blue]I know that I die gracefully in vain. I know inside detiorates in pain.[/color]-Razed in Black
[color=sky blue]I know that I die gracefully in vain. I know inside detiorates in pain.[/color]-Razed in Black
Originally posted by BaronTx
There are several positions open in the Al Qaeda hierarchy. I suggest you apply!
Who are you directing that to?
“Caw, Caw!” The call of the wild calls you. Are you listening? Do you dare challenge their power? Do you dare invade? Nature will always triumph in the end.
[color=sky blue]I know that I die gracefully in vain. I know inside detiorates in pain.[/color]-Razed in Black
[color=sky blue]I know that I die gracefully in vain. I know inside detiorates in pain.[/color]-Razed in Black
Originally posted by BaronTx
There are several positions open in the Al Qaeda hierarchy. I suggest you apply!
That was a very inappropriate comment. Obsidian is in his full right to have his opinions of the minute of silence and even be critical, without being accused of being a suitable member of a terrorist group.
I really hope you are joking BaronTx, if you are serious you should know that such flaming of people is not allowed on this board.
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
OK. I am fully opposed to the events obviously. But I have some different views regarding this vs. past tragedies/genocides/human error. Its all because I am an extremem naturalist.Originally posted by BaronTx
Towards obsidian
BTW-I for future times, I would have pm'ed Obsidian with such a comment. Obsidian has been a long time member of Gamebanshee and has earned much respect among peers. And he also kindly requested that if you would flame him, you should pm him.
EDIT-@CE Yes. I backup your words.
Obsidian is obviously not trolling and he is just expressing his opinion.
“Caw, Caw!” The call of the wild calls you. Are you listening? Do you dare challenge their power? Do you dare invade? Nature will always triumph in the end.
[color=sky blue]I know that I die gracefully in vain. I know inside detiorates in pain.[/color]-Razed in Black
[color=sky blue]I know that I die gracefully in vain. I know inside detiorates in pain.[/color]-Razed in Black
We don't need comments like this directed at people for voicing their opinion. I know the 9/11 attacks are a very sensitive topic for a lot of people, but I'm asking all of you, especially BaronTx, to refrain from replies like this in the future.Originally posted by BaronTx
There are several positions open in the Al Qaeda hierarchy. I suggest you apply!
@Obsidian: Perhaps you missed the previous discussion on this topic, you can find it here: http://gamebanshee.com/forums/showthrea ... adid=19525
Mine and others opinions are clearly expressed there.
Mine and others opinions are clearly expressed there.
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
Hmm, on retrospect, what I posted was a bit of a troll, I was looking for a heated discussion. @ CE, thanks for the backup and listing, and tyb for the good points.
Something Tyb said caught my attention.
I would agree think that making Sept 11 an international memorial day towards the death of innocents an appropriate.
I wasn't aware I was a respected member around here...
anyways, @ the Baron, No hard feelings. It's a touchy subject and I should have known better then to post what I did, when I did on a board with a lot of American citizens.
So what do you people think of making Sept an international memorial day?
Something Tyb said caught my attention.
We simply wont have the time to mourn the individual lossesof life around the world. I think maybe it would be right to just mourn for everything today.
I would agree think that making Sept 11 an international memorial day towards the death of innocents an appropriate.
I wasn't aware I was a respected member around here...
anyways, @ the Baron, No hard feelings. It's a touchy subject and I should have known better then to post what I did, when I did on a board with a lot of American citizens.
So what do you people think of making Sept an international memorial day?
The waves came crashing in like blindness.
So I just stood and listened.
So I just stood and listened.
Originally posted by Obsidian
I wasn't aware I was a respected member around here...
So what do you people think of making Sept an international memorial day?
No worries, Obsidian. Its a lot to think about for sure. I know my mind has been on a roller-coaster all day slipping between sadness and anger all at once. And Ive been thinking about a lot of what the world has gone through over the last 100 years. Thats enough to think about all together. So Im not sure whether it would be simply too much to think about. The last 100 years are bad enough to think of all the tragedies. But its important to know about and remember them and look back at them occasionally. We have to understand our mistakes before we correct them.
“Caw, Caw!” The call of the wild calls you. Are you listening? Do you dare challenge their power? Do you dare invade? Nature will always triumph in the end.
[color=sky blue]I know that I die gracefully in vain. I know inside detiorates in pain.[/color]-Razed in Black
[color=sky blue]I know that I die gracefully in vain. I know inside detiorates in pain.[/color]-Razed in Black
Wise words tyb. The majority of horrific events in our history are based around a fear and intolerance of minorites and ethnic groups.
The crusades, nazi extermination camps, Tootsies, the Balkans in general..
These are caused by a fear and anger passed down from generation to generation about an opposing side to the point where they hate each other. Certain middle eastern cultures have deemed the US to be the great satan, and look where thats gone.
For those of you GB members with children, please think before you speak about the events last year on this day, it affects them a lot. There's no reason to hold a grudge against Arabs, and I see it happening here in Canada already. I can only imagine what will happen in the US where you have grounds for a greivance.
(yes canadians died at the WTC, but not all that many, I think America has killed more... thats not funny, but true)
The crusades, nazi extermination camps, Tootsies, the Balkans in general..
These are caused by a fear and anger passed down from generation to generation about an opposing side to the point where they hate each other. Certain middle eastern cultures have deemed the US to be the great satan, and look where thats gone.
For those of you GB members with children, please think before you speak about the events last year on this day, it affects them a lot. There's no reason to hold a grudge against Arabs, and I see it happening here in Canada already. I can only imagine what will happen in the US where you have grounds for a greivance.
(yes canadians died at the WTC, but not all that many, I think America has killed more... thats not funny, but true)
The waves came crashing in like blindness.
So I just stood and listened.
So I just stood and listened.
First, Cowardly. I admit attacks on civilians are cowardly, no argument, but it does take a fair degree of courage to sacrifice yourself towards a cause you believe in.
Not when you expect to receive a lot of virgins after death.
This I call egoism.
Killing people randomly is an act of *extreme* cowardice.
To be ready to die in the process, only shows how unimportant was
to them the ultimate concept of life.
Forgive me, I'll try to avoid further comments.
BG2 - ToB Refinements Mod: Website
BG2 - ToB Refinements Mod: Forum and announcements
"Ever forward, my darling wind..."
BG2 - ToB Refinements Mod: Forum and announcements
"Ever forward, my darling wind..."
Originally posted by BaronTx
There are several positions open in the Al Qaeda hierarchy. I suggest you apply!
That is not fair.
I know you have apologised but i need to add my 2 cents.
That comment would have been more justified if directed to me, but obs didnt say anything worthy of such an insult.
Littz like i said before that translation by ms. Fallaci is incorrect. Rather it is a blatant lie.
My views on the matter have been stated before, so not opening another pandoras box and insulting others, i will refrain from posting this thread from now on.
For what is it to die but to stand naked in the wind and to melt into the sun? - Khalil Gibran
"We shall fight on the beaches. We shall fight on the landing grounds. We shall fight in the fields, and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender!" - Winston Churchill
"We shall fight on the beaches. We shall fight on the landing grounds. We shall fight in the fields, and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender!" - Winston Churchill
Dont be so harsh on yourself, Fas. I dont think ANYONE here deserved for that comment directed at them.Originally posted by CM
That is not fair.
I know you have apologised but i need to add my 2 cents.
That comment would have been more justified if directed to me, but obs didnt say anything worthy of such an insult.
“Caw, Caw!” The call of the wild calls you. Are you listening? Do you dare challenge their power? Do you dare invade? Nature will always triumph in the end.
[color=sky blue]I know that I die gracefully in vain. I know inside detiorates in pain.[/color]-Razed in Black
[color=sky blue]I know that I die gracefully in vain. I know inside detiorates in pain.[/color]-Razed in Black
@CM: ok, but maybe they misunderstood it as well. Actually, this is indeed my opinion.
Anyway, remove the first two lines of my post if you like.
Anyway, remove the first two lines of my post if you like.
BG2 - ToB Refinements Mod: Website
BG2 - ToB Refinements Mod: Forum and announcements
"Ever forward, my darling wind..."
BG2 - ToB Refinements Mod: Forum and announcements
"Ever forward, my darling wind..."
Actually i just wanted to enlighten you that the translation is wrong, though it is very much along those lines. In Islam a true matyr will get 72 women to take care of him. Now the come belief is that the only true martyrs ended with the grandsons of the Holy Prophet. The translation of Hur is not virgin. It is a mis-conception from the translation. The arabic word for virgin is not hur.
I dont want you to delete it. Rather i want to say that what you are saying is incorrect. That is all my point.
Tyb i dont think many will agree with your assessment of it being too harsh.
But lets leave the issue, it will only cause problems
I dont want you to delete it. Rather i want to say that what you are saying is incorrect. That is all my point.
Tyb i dont think many will agree with your assessment of it being too harsh.
But lets leave the issue, it will only cause problems
For what is it to die but to stand naked in the wind and to melt into the sun? - Khalil Gibran
"We shall fight on the beaches. We shall fight on the landing grounds. We shall fight in the fields, and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender!" - Winston Churchill
"We shall fight on the beaches. We shall fight on the landing grounds. We shall fight in the fields, and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender!" - Winston Churchill
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dragon wench
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Thus far I have avoided involvement in 9/11 threads.... but some of the headlines from this morning's papers have prompted me to put down my thoughts.
I have seen some people state that there were "just 3000" people killed on that day...as opposed to the many millions who have died as a result of wars, famine, disease etc. In my opinion, this is not about comparing numbers. A group of terrorists cold-bloodedly planned to snuff out innocent lives.... It doesn't matter what the sum total is here.... the fact that it happened at all is appalling. The fact that humans continue to perpetrate such repugnant acts against one another (not to mention the planet as a whole) is abhorant..... In my mind...boiling events such as this down to numbers is nothing short of sickening. Whether it be due to war, famine, disease....acts of terrorism.... one death is one death too many.
However, I also want to state something else that disturbs me. The majority of media representations both last year and yesterday have suggested that the US, as an innocent victim, is blameless.....
I do not, for one moment, believe there can ever be any justification for the heinous acts that occurred, but I do want to point out that the individuals responsible (along with many others in the Middle East), did not suddenly wake up one morning and decide to hate Americans. There is a cause and effect relationship here.....and it can't be ignored that the events of September 11 are, at least to some degree, a consequence of US foreign policy in the Middle East and elsewhere........ Bush's present vendetta against Iraq serves as a sadly pertinent example.
Do I think September 11 should be made a memorial...? I don't know.... My feelings on this one, much like my thoughts on Remembrance Day (November 11) are conflicted...
I have seen some people state that there were "just 3000" people killed on that day...as opposed to the many millions who have died as a result of wars, famine, disease etc. In my opinion, this is not about comparing numbers. A group of terrorists cold-bloodedly planned to snuff out innocent lives.... It doesn't matter what the sum total is here.... the fact that it happened at all is appalling. The fact that humans continue to perpetrate such repugnant acts against one another (not to mention the planet as a whole) is abhorant..... In my mind...boiling events such as this down to numbers is nothing short of sickening. Whether it be due to war, famine, disease....acts of terrorism.... one death is one death too many.
However, I also want to state something else that disturbs me. The majority of media representations both last year and yesterday have suggested that the US, as an innocent victim, is blameless.....
I do not, for one moment, believe there can ever be any justification for the heinous acts that occurred, but I do want to point out that the individuals responsible (along with many others in the Middle East), did not suddenly wake up one morning and decide to hate Americans. There is a cause and effect relationship here.....and it can't be ignored that the events of September 11 are, at least to some degree, a consequence of US foreign policy in the Middle East and elsewhere........ Bush's present vendetta against Iraq serves as a sadly pertinent example.
Do I think September 11 should be made a memorial...? I don't know.... My feelings on this one, much like my thoughts on Remembrance Day (November 11) are conflicted...
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