John Edward - Speaking to the Dead?

[smass]

I am not sure if this subject has been discussed before - if it has I apologize - if not I would appreciate some insight from the diverse audience found here on SYM.

John Edward hosts a TV show called "Crossing Over" in which he communicates with dead relatives of audience members. I have always been highly skeptical of these types of claims - but the popularity of this show and its acceptance by a large audience simply baffles me.

To state my position - I do not believe that it is possible to communicate with the dead - I am not an athiest - I am an agnostic - but the idea that the dead can somehow communicate with us seems to me to be purely a fantasy with its roots in our inability to comprehend our own deaths and our emotional need to believe that there is life after death. John Edward does seem to possess an ability to empathize and possibly read the thoughts of the living. I do believe that since thoughts are the result of electochemical stimuli in the brain it may be possible for a person attuned to this to "read minds". This would explain Mr. Edwards sometimes uncanny knowledge of the lives of others and also explain the gifts of some of the "legitimate" pychics.

Anway - what is your opinion? Thanks all.

[Mr Sleep]

Originally posted by smass
I do believe that since thoughts are the result of electochemical stimuli in the brain it may be possible for a person attuned to this to "read minds". This would explain Mr. Edwards sometimes uncanny knowledge of the lives of others and also explain the gifts of some of the "legitimate" pychics.

Anway - what is your opinion? Thanks all.

The cynic in me of course presumes it is all a set up, i am not that familiar with Edwards work but i presume they stipulate some excuse for his show not being fake?

I really don't know, I have never had a convincing psychic encounter, but chanelling the dead seems like nonesense to me, if one was really doing something like that he wouldn't be doing it on television and certainly not prime time

[Weasel]

My take on the subject will not be of warm welcome to some.

I would put the possibility of speaking to the dead in the same class as being abducted by Aliens from another world. Possible, but highly unlikely.

I would first ask, does the show sell/give tickets away on the street without any information taken down on the persons. If not the show can with a little work get a slim background of the person it will target..recent deaths..what the person did, and with this influence the 'guest' to believe the man (John Edward) is communicating with the dead.

[frogus]

It is set up. I have never seen the show, but even the small chance of a hugely complex and devious scam is much greater than the minute chance of him actually communing with deceased people. Think about it logically!

[C Elegans]

Originally posted by smass
I do believe that since thoughts are the result of electochemical stimuli in the brain it may be possible for a person attuned to this to "read minds". This would explain Mr. Edwards sometimes uncanny knowledge of the lives of others and also explain the gifts of some of the "legitimate" pychics.

Like Frogus, I can tell you right away without having seen the show, that this is a scam. With our present knowledge and techonologicl development, there is absolutely no way to read other people's minds. Despite the vast amount of research, studies and experiements performed over decades, nobody has ever been able to perform a psychics act during controlled circumstances. Psychics are often very skilled in fooling an audience by using different techniques I can describe in detail in if anyone is interested. The most common ones include massive research about people before a show, use of microphones and headphones to communicate with assistants that are places backstage and in the audience, "cold reading", ie elaborating matierial that the subject has already presented to the alleged psychic.

The electrochemical events in our brains are so far unintelligable to decode, there is no way to even guess if an event occurs because a person think of something or because they move they little toe, so to speak. We are very far from understanding the brains many languages, and it is not possible to detect neuroelectrochemical events in a brain without advanced medical equipment. However, face expression, body language and lots of other little subtle signals people send out, can help a "psychic" to look like he is reading people's minds.

[fable]

Originally posted by smass
John Edward hosts a TV show called "Crossing Over" in which he communicates with dead relatives of audience members.

I strongly suspect that somewhere in those tv credits is a statement disavowing any implications of its host, and stating that it should be regarded as an act of entertainment. Otherwise, it is a pure, utterly cynical scam.

[HighLordDave]

Re: Re: John Edward - Speaking to the Dead?

Originally posted by fable
Otherwise, it is a pure, utterly cynical scam.

For all of the bashing he receives, at least Jerry Springer acknowledges that he's in it for the money and to have a good time; he's not so presumptuous as to try a peddle a product under false pretenses or deceive either his audience or the people who come on to his show.

[frogus]

different techniques I can describe in detail in if anyone is interested

I am interested! If our friend smass would prefer not to have his thread hijacked by a discussion of various types of public fraud, PM me . I am fascinated by frauds, rogues, cheats and hustlers of all sorts That is why I am the only person in the world who really likes Scarne On Cards .

[Weasel]

Here is a good site to read about "Crossing Over"

I sense a Jim here...

This is the home site...

Crossing Over

John was an ordinary kid growing up on Long Island. He played ball with his friends, ate pizza on Friday nights, had out-of-body experiences, visions of dead relatives he had never known, and predicted phone calls and surprise visits. At least, he thought that's what everyone else did. He did not understand how unusual this was until he was fifteen years old and was read by a psychic himself. She let him know that he was special and that his life's work would be about bringing comfort and hope to people here in the physical world by reuniting them with those they had loved and lost.

[Osiris]

I'm with the Skeptics on this one - the show is rigged (and I can tell that without even watching the show - maybe I'm psychic?).

Is the show made in California by any chance ?

[smass]

Thanks for all your replies.

I would like to reiterate that I think Edward is a fraud. I am intrigued by the popularity of the show and how many people I meet that actually believe that it is real. It always amazes me that in the 21st century people can fall for the same tricks - members of this forum seem to be educated and well read - is the typical person really this gullible - or is it just a need to fill a void that religion traditionally fills? People seem to be desperate to avoid facing their own mortality and disenchanted with organized religion - therefore they grab hold of any "evidence" of life after death and run with it.

Which brings me to another subject that is closely related to my original topic - Near Death Experiences.

I have always been skeptical of these "go to the light" accounts. It seems to me that in the moments before death the unconcious brain takes over and the person goes into a dream like state. The reason that many people have similar visions is that they have a pre-conceived notion of what happens at death and the unconcious brain simply manifest this vision.

Any other opinions?

[fable]

Originally posted by smass
I am intrigued by the popularity of the show and how many people I meet that actually believe that it is real. It always amazes me that in the 21st century people can fall for the same tricks - members of this forum seem to be educated and well read - is the typical person really this gullible - or is it just a need to fill a void that religion traditionally fills?

I don't personally think it's a matter of gullibility or "need for a religious substitute," since believing in a place where Uncle Fred can communicate with you would appear to imply some kind of afterlife, and those things usually don't exist without religious implications. I'm inclined to think that it's simply love and hope, a desire to know that those we've cared for haven't simply vanished forever, but are still capable of receiving and giving affection. Emotion driving this kind of desire is powerful enough to override logic, particularly when logic can never disprove something as broad and scientifically as an afterlife.

And as usual, somebody takes advantage of this kind of feeling to defraud folks.

[C Elegans]

@Weasel: Excellent links that describe the procedure well. If Smass allows, I can post more about how frauds of this type are done, since Frogus was interested in the subject.

Originally posted by smass
I have always been skeptical of these "go to the light" accounts. It seems to me that in the moments before death the unconcious brain takes over and the person goes into a dream like state. The reason that many people have similar visions is that they have a pre-conceived notion of what happens at death and the unconcious brain simply manifest this vision.

The classical Near Death Experience (NDE), with a tunnel, light in the end, out-of-body experiences etc, is a fairly rare experience. Studies of patients who have been close to death or declared dead during surgery and been revived, show that only a tiny fraction report NDE experiences afterwards. Scientists have suggested that the combination of lack of oxygen in the brain and influence from morphin analogues result in NDE experiences since there is a correlation between these events and people who report NDEs. Neuroscientist think NDEs can be explained by neuronal activity shutting down and restarting. So from science, there is a plausible explanation for these experiences, that does not include mystical elements.

The same subjective experiences have also been reported from test pilots when loosing consciousness due to lack of blood and oxygen in the brain because of the G-force. This is interesting since the pilots are not at all near death in this situation, but they share the blood and oxygen deprivation with the patients reporting NDE. Subjective, personal experience is very strong, and some people who have experienced NDE view this as evidence of a life after death and/or of a god. My personal opinion is that no such conclusions can be drawn, and the most likely cause of NDEs are entirely natural and physiological.