All about drugs

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:52 am

I'm was looking for info about drugs.
It took me a long time to find what I was looking for.
But I'd like to hear your opinions about it. Also about drugs facts in general.

Can someone, who has been slipped drug against their will (like in their drink), do stuff they don't want to do? I don't mean that they are physically forced, but they do it because of the drugs. Like having an one night affair or something.
Does this person has to be open for it, or does drugs make them mindless puppets who do whatever the other person whats? Or is there still a mental blockade that stops you from doing what you don't want to?

If you have other questions about drugs, please do ask.

No spam.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:02 am

Drugs make people do strange things. Some truly do tear down the mental berrier that you refer to. Some cause people to lose logic, and common sense. It makes them become someone they would never act like. Thats why so many tragedies happen when people are on drugs, besides the fact they are also hazardous for our health.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:03 am

A quick reply to Rob-hins main question: Some drugs work like "disinhibitors", ie they make it more difficult to resist even weak impulses a person has, impulses that the person should not have acted on if not affected by the drug. Other drugs can induce new states, experiences and impulses that were not necessarily there in the person to begin with. In both cases I think one can say that a person does something against their will, although the second example is clearer.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:17 am

I disagree with you CE and Tyb.
I believe someone has to be at least open to doing something, and drugs just was the catalyst(?). The thing that pushes one over the edge so to speak.

Keep in mind, that I'm not reffering to drugs addicts. But for instance, someone who has been slipped a pill.

A drugs addict does everything he can to get drugs, or money for it.
They don't care if it's right or wrong. It's all they think about.

For the not addicts, drugs has no strange power that makes one do things they are not open to. Nor is it an excuse, just like alcohol isn't. It's not about the drugs, it's about the person... isn't it?

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:21 am

Originally posted by Rob-hin

Can someone, who has been slipped drug against their will (like in their drink), do stuff they don't want to do? I don't mean that they are physically forced, but they do it because of the drugs. Like having an one night affair or something.

That is extremly illegal Rob-hin and in most countries counted the same as rape.

I thought you ought to know

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:24 am

Originally posted by Rob-hin

For the not addicts, drugs has no strange power that makes one do things they are not open to. Nor is it an excuse, just like alcohol isn't. It's not about the drugs, it's about the person... isn't it?

In a way, yes. Some people are stronger to hold on to sense than others while taking drugs. Some people give in immediately to temptation. So in that sense, it is about the person. However I believe that people, no matter how strong they are, have perception reduced by drugs, and it affects everyone. So that is when it is about the drugs.

Though I dont really argue your first points, mainly because of my lack of experience with people being drugged or my own experiences. I have never taken drugs besides those from the pharmacy, and ony a few of my friends have taken drugs, to the best of my knowledge.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:34 am

It would depend on what drug your talking about...ones like LSD and PCP..(hallucinogens) will cause the person to have no control..it alters the way the mind works. Leading the person to believe fantasy is reality.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:35 am

Originally posted by Rob-hin
I disagree with you CE and Tyb.
I believe someone has to be at least open to doing something, and drugs just was the catalyst(?). The thing that pushes one over the edge so to speak.

This is not correct. We should however clarify what drugs we are talking about, since there is a vast variety of different drugs that all have their own specific mechanims of action on the nervous system. Some drugs acts like you descibe, some do not.

For the not addicts, drugs has no strange power that makes one do things they are not open to. Nor is it an excuse, just like alcohol isn't. It's not about the drugs, it's about the person... isn't it?

This is just not correct. Drugs have no mystical powers, they have pharmacological properties that change bloodflow, neurotransmission, neuroreceptor sensitivity and release or inhibition of various chemical compounds in your body.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:45 am

I'm thinking about for instance XTC or GHB.
If I'm correct XTC can't be mixed into someones drink, since it's in pill or capsule shape. So I'm mainly thinking about GHB, or something that is very similar.

GHB comes in pill, powder or liquid shape. It is available on doctor prescription since it used to used in operations and is not considered drugs (if you know what I mean) in my country.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:51 am

I've no experience with mentioned chemicals above Rob-hin.

What I can say from experience and from watching others on all kinds of stuff is that drugs affect everyone quite differently. I'm seen some people on real heavy stuff behave only as if they were having fun and seen others on light drugs behave like basket cases.

I would think a drug like a date rape drug would not only remove one's inhibitions but would also make someone quite unaware of their environment. Such drugs are certainly in a different classification from those labeled as 'recreational' and/or addictive drugs.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:56 am

Originally posted by Ned Flanders

I would think a drug like a date rape drug would not only remove one's inhibitions but would also make someone quite unaware of their environment. Such drugs are certainly in a different classification from those labeled as 'recreational' and/or addictive drugs.

The primary effect of GHB is central nervous system depression. Its initial clinical use was therefore to induce anesthesia. It is still used in Europe as an adjunct for anesthesia. GHB induces a trancelike state that mimics physiologic sleep.

From this description I found, I would agree.

Maybe CE can give a better understanding.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 12:04 pm

From what I've heard, GHB make one feel physically attracted to other people.
As I've heard, this is why they put this in other people's drinks.

But what I don't understand,is that it's supposed to really dangerous in combination with alcohol. Possible death even!
And it's unpredictable about how much people can handle.

Do or don't they through this in other people's drinks, and what usually happends with that person?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 12:07 pm

@Rob-hin, i have always found the idea of a drug dealer slipping someone some drugs slightly ridiculous, surely he would rather sell the merchandise than just give it away?

Alcohol also has an interesting effect on drug taking, apparently it helps speed up the process of imbibing the drugs, so drinking alcohol when taking drugs means the drug has an effect quicket.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 12:09 pm

@Rob-hin: If we limit the discussion to only XTC (MDMA) and GHB, then I would say that these drugs, as long as not overdosed, would not make most people do a lot of really strange things but rather remove inhibitions. However, both drugs also lowers the ability to judge situtions properly, so slipping this in somebody's drink in order to use them sexually, would absolutely be a crime.

I will return to your other questions later, I really must work now.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 12:14 pm

Originally posted by C Elegans
@Rob-hin: <snip> However, both drugs also lowers the ability to judge situtions properly, so slipping this in somebody's drink in order to use them sexually, would absolutely be a crime. <snip>

I know.
I'm looking for information about the whole thing. But don't worry, I'm not planning anything.
And I don't want anything to do with drugs.

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 12:47 pm

Originally posted by Rob-hin

I know.
I'm looking for information about the whole thing. But don't worry, I'm not planning anything.
And I don't want anything to do with drugs.

Then I'm tempted to ask: why such a sudden interest in drugs? And why in drugs which can be given to a victim without him/her knowing?

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:29 pm

@Vicsun

My primairy reasons are pretty personal, so I'll keep them to myself.
I also wanted to know more about drugs and have a question and answer topic about it. So this is not just to answer my question, but we can also discuss drugs here.

Thanks for caring

ps. @all
Please don't think I'm thinking about doing it to someone!
Cause I'm not!!

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:42 pm

Originally posted by Rob-hin

ps. @all
Please don't think I'm thinking about doing it to someone!
Cause I'm not!!

Fear not....even though my faith in humankind is low, I do have faith in the members of this board.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 5:30 pm

Originally posted by Rob-hin
I'm looking for information about the whole thing. But don't worry, I'm not planning anything. And I don't want anything to do with drugs.

That's good to hear.

Both GHB (gammahydroxybutyrate) and Ecstacy (MDMA, methylenedioxymethamphetamine) are popular club drugs, and they have similar effects to some extent. Pharmacologically speaking, they both increase the release of several important neurotransmitters, like dopamin and serotonin. GHB also affects the GABA system, like benzodiazepine drugs like Valium or Rohypnol also do. On experience level, both drugs induce a sense of euphoria and often have an inhibiting effect on people. Some may experience an increased sex drive and enhanced feeling of intimacy. But remember this is an artificial, chemically induced feeling triggered by the increase in dopamin and serotonin release. Serotonin and dopamine regulates basic human needs such as feeding, sleeping and sexual behaviour.

GHB is thought to have a more inhibiting effect, just like other drugs that affect the GABA system in the brain. That's probably why GHB together with Rohypnol is the most common drugs used for date raping. The effect of these drugs also increases when mixed with alcohol. (Drugs that affect the GABA system in the brain, often have stong and dangerous interactions with alcohol.)
The most dangerous effects of GHB are the risk of overdosing, which in a dose dependant manner leads to amnesia, dizziness, seiizures, coma, and death. Remember that there are about 80 known analogues to GHB, that has the same effects or worse, but often people believe they are less dangerous.

E can induce visal perception distortions, it is more "hallucinogenic" than GHB. Negative effects include anxiety, disturbed heart rythm and elevated blood pressure. Death from MDMA are most often caused by people forgetting to drink and thus do not compensate for the body temperature rising effects of MDMA. Another dangerous effect is long term - E is neurotoxic, it kills serotonergic brain cells and this can unfortunately lead to chronic, untreatable depression. Some people are more sensitive than others to this, probably depending on how their serotonin system works, and may get deep chronic depression after just one or a few doses of E. Thankfully is it not very common, the problem is that it's totally unpredictable who will be such a person.

Anyway, I think it is important to realise that even if these drugs don't normally induce extreme states of confusion or great hallucinations, they do induce artificial emotions and reactions as well as disinhibiting impulses that a person already has. If somebody gets date raped as a consequence of someone slipping GHB, Rohypnol or E in the persons drink, it should absolutetly not be viewed as this person "really wanted it" deep within or something like that. On another level, if we don't talk about assult but acts of free will, disinhibiting drugs may cause a person to act on the idea that "s/he is cute and nice" because the drug enhances positive feelings and sexual drive, althought the person should not at all have considered sex if s/he hadn't been affected by the drug.

I am not an expert on drugs except classical hallucinogenes, but if you wish to know more about something, just post and I check when I come to work.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:34 am

Thanks for the info C Elegans.

edit:
What Ph D mean?