They did it again...

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 6:23 am

Two kids killed!

Enough.
Words are useless. They say "luckily there are even good people
and things in the world"
And so? Where were they when the two were being killed?
None of us can erase their last cries from the history of the universe.
They will always remain there.
And we deserve this!
Yesterday italian television spoke more about Ferrari than the little
english victims...
It's a matter of priorities, you know.
This place stinks.
Children should live their happy years before they can realize HOW
it stinks.
But they keep killing them, and we let them do...
We have our lives, our football teams, our PC-games... who cares????

We all like children 'cause they're cute...
If we don't understand the true value of children, we are doomed.
They should be the first of the priorities, they should be protected
like the only existing, valuable thing..
Instead we let that our taxes pay the lawyers who protect
their murderders....
****ty world. Me included.

EDIT: oh, censoring stars.... it remains ****ty, if you ask me

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 6:47 am

What is so sad about this case, is that the two people who have been arrested for the suspected murder are the school caretaker and a classroom learning support assistant. Who can we trust with our children?

We instil into our kids not to talk to strangers...yet the suspected murderers of these two ten year old friends were known to the children, and employed in an environment that brought them into close contact...

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 6:52 am

Regrettably I've noticed that this is happening more and more. The paedophilia in the US and here. It frankly pisses me off but people still do it.

I think one of the main reasons why it increases is becaue they are now smart. They don't go around in dirty raincoats, they are highly organised and control it all, they create rings and have become something that should not happen...

CM · Post by CM » Mon Aug 19, 2002 6:53 am

Originally posted by Yshania
What is so sad about this case, is that the two people who have been arrested for the suspected murder are the school caretaker and a classroom learning support assistant. Who can we trust with our children? We instil into our kids not to talk to strangers...yet the suspected murderers of these two ten year old friends were known to the children, and employed in an environment that brought them into close contact...

That is just sick.
I havent folllowed this news consistantly, but are there any reasons why the girls were killed?

edit: I did a report on incest once, as a big item had broken out about in Pakistan. At this time i was in indonesia. From the research i could find, it seemed that these people were forming a very close circle and grouping like Nippy said, which would communicate with each other. Later on around 2 years ago, i just searched the net under the word incest and boom nearly 3000 sites popped up and most of these free. Lets just say it takes a very distrubed family to follow such acts. Are incest and paedophilia the same thing?

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 6:58 am

Originally posted by CM

That is just sick.
I havent folllowed this news consistantly, but are there any reasons why the girls were killed?

We still don't know why or how, we only had confirmation today that the two bodies found have been identified as the missing girls.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 6:59 am

Originally posted by Nippy

I think one of the main reasons why it increases is becaue they are now smart. They don't go around in dirty raincoats, they are highly organised and control it all, they create rings and have become something that should not happen...

I sure hope you have it wrong. But with the internet and the easy way to transfer information I can see what you mean.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:03 am

@Weasel, the first news we had was that the girls had been on the internet just prior to disappearing. It was thought that they had been in a chat room.

Then a couple were interviewed by the press (separately) and now the press remark at how the woman spoke in past tense about the girls before they were confirmed dead, and how the man had appeared to the press on more than one occasion. Then we find they were both taken to separate police stations for interviewing, they were released at 10:15 pm, to be arrested the next morning at just after 4am.

Whether the police still believe that the internet access had anything to do with it or not I don't know.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:09 am

Originally posted by CM

Are incest and paedophilia the same thing?

I was always lead to believe they are different. Incest being tied to a family, where as a paedophilia will prey on any child. Both sick, but they might not be tied together.

CE or Fable might know what the chances of someone who commits incest, turning to paedophilia. I personally believe the chance would be high...given the job of the person as well. Someone who commits incest and has (looking for word)...'entrance' (avaiblity) to children, I believe would turn to paedophilia.

CM · Post by CM » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:13 am

Originally posted by Weasel

I was always lead to believe they are different. Incest being tied to a family, where as a paedophilia will prey on any child. Both sick, but they might not be tied together.

CE or Fable might know what the chances of someone who commits incest, turning to paedophilia. I personally believe the chance would be high...given the job of the person as well. Someone who commits incest and has (looking for word)...'entrance' (avaiblity) to children, I believe would turn to paedophilia.

Both I agree are sick.
And i agree... that one could lead to the other. But is there a chance of paedophilia in this case?
Also how long were the girls missing?

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:22 am

There is an absolute chance. I had a feeling within the first week of them going missing, if it was kidnapping it would have had a demands note. Why kill two children? It doesn't gain anything unless you want to silence them. That sounds incredibly brutal, but I am afraid that I may be right.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:32 am

Originally posted by Yshania
@Weasel, the first news we had was that the girls had been on the internet just prior to disappearing. It was thought that they had been in a chat room.

I see.

I personally have never been in a chat room..never had the thought or IMHO reason to go to one. My self, I always thought a chat room was like the board here at GB...but I'm beginning to think there is a difference.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:39 am

Originally posted by Weasel
I was always lead to believe they are different. Incest being tied to a family, where as a paedophilia will prey on any child. Both sick, but they might not be tied together.

CE or Fable might know what the chances of someone who commits incest, turning to paedophilia. I personally believe the chance would be high...given the job of the person as well. Someone who commits incest and has (looking for word)...'entrance' (avaiblity) to children, I believe would turn to paedophilia.

Few people who commit incent, also commit pedophilic acts towards other children than their own...it's usually two different types of disturbances. Victims of incest however are overrepresented in criminals who hav committed pedophilic crimes. It is not known why, but there are many hypothesis around.

To me, few crimes are so upsetting and abhorring and difficult to accept as sexual abuse, violence and murder of children. Pedophilia is much more common that people in general believe, but very few pedophiles are also actually violent.

For the two British girls, I knew this would happen.

When two so young girls disappear without leaving note to the parents and no kidnapperers demand anything, then you just know that the children are most likely to be found dead.

I'm have a lot of work now so I can't post a lot, but if anyone has questions about incest, pedophilia and sexual abuse of children, I will do my best to answer those questions later. I am good friends with the Swedish forensic psyhciatry people who specialise in this area, so apart from being a shrink myself, I often get to hear the latest research and finding in this field from them.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:47 am

Didn't Weasel ask the other day whether there was an actual increase in pedophilia crimes and child abductions or if it was just being reported more? So rather than having an actual increase in these types of crimes, they are becoming more high profile?

What I wonder is if we (as a society) are panicing over something that is not happening more often than before we knew about it.

Yshania asked a couple of posts back how we can trust the people who take care of our children if the majority of abductors and abusors know their victims on at least a first name basis. The answer is because we have to. There is simply no way around it. You can do some things to check up on the people who are watching your kids such as having police background checks on child care workers and teachers, and you can investigate your own private babysitters, but the bottom line is that protecting everyone is simply impossible (not that we shouldn't try).

I would compare it to trusting your local policemen; there are crooked cops out there, but the vast majority are not only good people, they are better than most. Same thing with teachers and other child care providers. Almost all are upstanding citizens and are genuinely looking out for your kids's best interests. The problem is that there are a handful of abusors (ie-rapists, child molestors, etc.) who affect a lot of kids, so it seems that their presence is pervasive, when in fact they are not.

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:48 am

Originally posted by CM
Both I agree are sick.
And i agree... that one could lead to the other. But is there a chance of paedophilia in this case?
Also how long were the girls missing?

The girls were missing for 14 days. The worst thing about this is that the police are "almost certain" that the girls are Holly and Jessica. What happened to the formal identification? The only conclusion that I can come to is that the bodies have been so horribly mutilated as to be unrecognizable, a truly terrible thing. If they find that the girls have not been sexually abused at all, I for one will be very surprised

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:51 am

Originally posted by Kameleon
The girls were missing for 14 days. The worst thing about this is that the police are "almost certain" that the girls are Holly and Jessica. What happened to the formal identification?

Not being sure how police across the pond handle things, could it be that they are waiting to notify the girls's families before making a general release to the public? That's a common practise over here, but our news of this event is sketchy at best.

CM · Post by CM » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:53 am

Whoa the bodies were mutilated are you sure about that?
And there is a possibilty of sexual abuse.
That is one sick group of people.
Those two need to be locked away for life.
Actually in this case kill them.

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:57 am

Originally posted by HighLordDave
Not being sure how police across the pond handle things, could it be that they are waiting to notify the girls's families before making a general release to the public? That's a common practise over here, but our news of this event is sketchy at best.

Hmm, notify of what? Usually, the families are brought in straightaway to identify the bodies, in this case it's been 24 hours without any identification. @Fas, no I'm not sure about mutilation, it's about the only explanation I can come up with, unless the families have refused to look at the bodies

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:59 am

We don't know if it's them, but it might well be. I'm not sure what to do in this case to be honest. I'm damn sure if they were executed people would stop this sort of thing right away.

@ HLD I think it had more to do with the fact that the bodies were that bad.

@ CE, I agree, see my above post...

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 8:09 am

Originally posted by Nippy
<snip>
I'm not sure what to do in this case to be honest. I'm damn sure if they were executed people would stop this sort of thing right away.
<snip>

Maybe not - but at least there would be less scum on the planet.
It might not be "reforming" or "humanistic" or "detering" with the death penalty, but at least the people executed wouldn't do it again.
(yeah - I know, what if they were innocent and yada yada yada, but what if they weren't and they did it again? )

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 8:15 am

Agree completely Xan, but the way I look at it also is that people die in wars, but do they talk about innocents then? It's just a number. I am reminded of a quote of Stalin:

One death is a tragedy, a million is just a statistic