Clans of the Alphane Moon...

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Aug 18, 2002 2:50 pm

I am currently reading a book by the most censored author on this forum, Philip K D!ck. I have an interesting quote that might sound strangely familiar...

"But you see, with the paranoids establishing the ideology, the dominant emoitional theme would be hate. Actually hate going in two directions; the leadership would hate everyone outside its enclave and also would take for granted that everyone hated them in return. Therefore their entire so-called foreign policy would be to establish mechanisms by which this supposed hatred directed at them could be fought. And this would involve the entire society in an illusory struggle, a battle against foes that didn't exist for a victory over nothing."
"Why is that so bad?"
"Because no matter how it came out the results would be the same. Total isolation for these people. That would be the ultimate effect of their entire group activity: to progressively cut themselves off from all other living entities....it wouldn't be self sufficency; it would be something entirely different, something you or i can't really imagine..." There is more but I have to get a tape ready for 24, interesting though, no?

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Aug 18, 2002 3:48 pm

D!ck lived and worked his productive life in the shadow of the Cold War and its mentality, and he was a critic of them both--at least, in so far as apolitical science fiction, which was the norm, permitted at that time.

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Sun Aug 18, 2002 4:06 pm

From which book did that quote comes from?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Aug 18, 2002 4:07 pm

Originally posted by fable
D!ck lived and worked his productive life in the shadow of the Cold War and its mentality, and he was a critic of them both--at least, in so far as apolitical science fiction, which was the norm, permitted at that time.

Which do you think that description represents or is it more of a premonition?

edit @ Humanflyz, Clans of the Alphane Moon, i am only half way through at the moment

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Aug 18, 2002 5:36 pm

@Sleep, I meant that he couldn't very well be more sharp-edged in his satire of the Cold War mentality than he was, given that it would have been too obvious. In the 1950s, you took your career in your hands if you expressed political views that ran counter to national policy at the time. (I'm speaking about the US. In the Soviet, you could and did get jailed and sent for "rehabilitation" at one of the Siberian kulags, where many people spend their lives in prison.) In the 1960s, the timorousness of the media being what it is, political dissidence still wasn't expressed except in this roundabout fashion.

The sole exception I can think of was Poul Anderson, and Anderson was much more direct because at the time he was an extremely right-wing flagwaver for the US government's policies in Vietnam. (I still recall his stories that had protesters being urged on by forces of fantastic darkness, while noble paladin-types, reincarnated from the Middle Ages, fought to prevent peace rallies. And yes, I'm serious.)

Science fiction and fantasy still tend to be ignored as fields for trenchant political satire. Occasionally something raises its head and gives hope, like Robert Sheckley's Mindswap, Harry Harrison's Bill the Galactic Hero, or some encounters in L Sprague de Camp's later novels. But by and large, sci-fi and fantasy are mass-marketed pulp writing aimed at escapism, and largely controlled these days by a few very powerful corporations. Mind, I've got no problem with them making money. I just wish they didn't raise the rates for floorspace in bookstores, thus driving smaller, more individual and mature authors into online sales--or into writing for other fields.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Mon Aug 19, 2002 1:10 am

Originally posted by fable
The sole exception I can think of was Poul Anderson, and Anderson was much more direct because at the time he was an extremely right-wing flagwaver for the US government's policies in Vietnam. (I still recall his stories that had protesters being urged on by forces of fantastic darkness, while noble paladin-types, reincarnated from the Middle Ages, fought to prevent peace rallies. And yes, I'm serious.)

LMAO Does anyone have any links, if he has stuff available on the net?

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 9:10 am

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
LMAO Does anyone have any links, if he has stuff available on the net?

Anderson's still under copyright, having just died in 2001. I *think* the relevant short stories (and novel excerpts) might be found in Operation Chaos, which came out around 1970 or so.

The problem I have with D!ck's literature is that in many of his novels, his endings sell out. He creates situations that beautifully satirize US attitudes, but then reaches a point where logic would demand a follow through that dumps his society down the literary toilet--and he switches gears to give a happy ending. No doubt he realized happy endings would please more readers, and it could be that his editors demanded this of him. But that's why D!ck excerpts make such fine reading, while his full novels leave me disastisfied. By comparison, Harry Harrison never sweetened the sour tone of Bill the Galactic Hero, and he never achieved the kind of visibility and sales that D!ick did during their heyday in the thirty to forty years ago.

ALso worth reading are the short stories of CM Kornbluth, who shared many views with D!ck, but died too young to because a name in the profession. I particularly recommend "The Marching Morons," written in 1951. It postulated a dystopian view of a far future Earth divided between entertainment/propaganda for 5-year-old mentalities and the inbred idiot masses who cheerfully accepted whatever they saw on television. Of course, that's not the plot, but the thing is savagely funny. Definitely worth reading.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 2:32 pm

Originally posted by fable
In the 1960s, the timorousness of the media being what it is, political dissidence still wasn't expressed except in this roundabout fashion.

Thanks Fable

I was aware - in some part - of the intellectual opression that occured during the 50's/60's, i wasn't aware that it was quite so stringent. That passage is quite creative though, i know some of the satirists of my generation are amusing but they are allowed to jump right to the point, due to that satire has almost lost it's edge, in my opinion anyone can write satire now, in fact the governments are quite self satirising.

(I still recall his stories that had protesters being urged on by forces of fantastic darkness, while noble paladin-types, reincarnated from the Middle Ages, fought to prevent peace rallies. And yes, I'm serious.)

LOL