Monk overpowered, or game too easy? (Spoilers)

[NightFallMyriad]

AC: 42
HP: 197

STR: 19
DEX: 21
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 20
CHR: 10


How did you get these stats? What did they look like at the beginning of the game?

I'm trying to learn all I can about monks since they sound so cool (and since I'm the uber powergamer ).

I'm considering starting the game with these stats:

STR: 14 / +2
DEX: 16 / +3
CON: 12 / +1
INT: 8 / -1
WIS: 16 / +1
CHR: 8 / -1

That should take my wisdom to 21 by level 20 and I can get items like the belt of agility +4, periapts of wisdom +5, Belt of Fire Giant Strength, Nymph Cloaks, Rings of Scholars +5 etc...

Also, I'm still puzzled by your AC of 42 because it seems to be made up of different types of AC, deflection, natural, dodge...

NightFall Myriad,

[NightFallMyriad]

Oddly enough, if I play as an elf, I can start with these stats and I get all the cool elf feats:

STR: 14 / +2
DEX: 16 / +3
CON: 12 / +1
INT: 10 / +0
WIS: 16 / +1
CHR: 8 / -1

Same as if I were human, but now I can converse without referring to myself as "me" instead of "I."

I lose out on one feat at first level, but that's okay since I wasn't sure where I would spend it anyway.

My selected feats list looks like this so far:

Toughness
Dodge
Mobility
Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike)

Power Attack
Improved Power Attack

Another question about monks: concentration is listed as a class skill, but what reasons are there for taking it? I mean, it's only supposed to prevent spellcasting disruption, so what counts as a "spell" for a monk? What could a monk possibly be doing that could be disrupted, because as far as I know, they can't cast spell be they divine or arcane, and none of the combat feats can be disrupted. Is there any good reason to take concentration?

Other than that, I'm putting skill points into persuade, lore, discipline and disable traps, the last two being cross-class.

Comments?

[Nygma]

Base stats at game end were:

STR: 14
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 20
CHR: 10

Every point I got after startup went into wisdom. The Ring of the Rogue (+4 DEX), Belt of Fire Giant Strength (+5 STR), and Boot of the Sun Soul +3 (+3 DEX) made up the final tally.

As for my AC,

+4 AC bonus as lvl 20 monk
+5 Wisdom modifier
+5 Dexterity modifier
+5 Boots of the Sun Soul +5 (Dodge)
+5 Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (Natural)
+5 Robes of the Shining Hand +5 (Armor Modifier)
+3 Cloak of Fortification +3 (Deflection)
+1 Dodge feat (not sure if this is included in character sheet figure)

It has to be composed of various modifiers, since I believe only dodge bonuses stack (i.e. +5 deflection item and +3 deflection item will only add +5 to your AC.)

Power attack was my last feat, I wish I had taken Improved Critical instead. I've never really tried it, but the -5 (-10 for improved) penalty to attack seemed pretty harsh, which is why I took it after I had already gotten everything else I wanted (Bonuses to saving throws and evasion-type feats).

Unless you're using a dexterity based weapon or planning to take the weapon finesse feat, I'd increase wisdom over dexterity. The monk gets to add the wisdom modifier to AC, plus wisdom effects saving throws and the effectiveness of Quivering Palm and other feats (Base DC + Wis. Mod. + 1/2 level seems to be a common theme).

I didn't take concentration and didn't miss it. I do wish I hadn't put points into parry, they would have been better placed in heal. Discipline will let you avoid knockdowns, but I only had a problem with getting knockdown at the beginning of the game.

[NightFallMyriad]

So you you took feats like Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude and Iron Will to up your saving throws? That seems a little excessive considering the monk's saving throws are the best in the game already.

As for power attack and improved power attack, I like them especially for bashing chests and doors. I'm half considering not taking them at all because you can't use them on top of flurry of blows which kind of makes it useless in battles.

That would leave me a couple of feats to spend...

As for the stats, I don't think a constitution of 12 will kill me because it means a nice round figure of 10 hit points per level for a maximum of 200 at level 20, and because I can get CON raising items (Amulet of the Long Death, boots of striding +5 etc...).
Intelligence at 10 seems right.
A fourteen is strength seems about right.
I'm focusing on DEX and WIS because they add to AC bonus as mentioned. And I won't hardly need any charisma. After all, my monk is a bit of a loner.

What race were you? I think I'm going to play as an elf for the high dexterity and neat bonus feats.

[limorkil]

I've played quite a few characters in the single player game now, just to get a feel for them for the mod I am planning. Admittedly, I haven't played all of them through the entire game, just chapter 1 and 2. This is without henchmen by the way.

I have to say the monk is about the easiest of the lot.
The druid is the only class that might be easier, but I think the druid is just more powerful early on because the pet is about 3 levels higher than the character.
Cleric is pretty easy too.

The ranger/rogue is the hardest I've played, but that is partly because the 1.21 patch seems to have stopped some of the better chests spawning class-specific loot. What made this char hard is that I dual wield and only wear light armor, so my AC is not that great. Also, you get a lot less XP if ranger is your highest level class compared to rogue; a pure rogue was tough at the start but she levelled up really quickly and, of course, benefitted from a very high sneak attack (which triggers way more times than what would really be fair in PnP).

I haven't tried a sorcerer, wizard or bard yet. I can see these all being pretty weak at the start, but very powerful towards the end.

So, yes, the SP game is easy and the monk just makes it even easier.

[DaleWind]

Rogue/Ranger should be easy as well due to the Use Magic Device skill

[Crosswind]

It's like this: Once you get the improved knockdown feat, or the knockdown feat, the game becomes -ridiculously easy-.

Monks happen to be the cheesiest class around for a number of reasons:

1.) Bioware not only a.) stupidly included +5 to stat items, but b.) let them stack, something that 3rd edition doesn't allow.

2.) Gave them a lot of nice feats for free.

3.) Included a freaking assload of "monk items" which you will -never- find in normal DnD. You'll find a million magic longswords before you EVER see magic monk armor.

People have gotten 60 AC with a monk, using only items from the game.

So, to conclude, monks are a pretty overpowered class. But any fighter class can own, as soon as you get improved knockdown. Mages and Clerics also have no problems (Harm means dragons die in like 1 round, and mages rule for mass damage).

Taking a henchman just means it's even easier.

The only class that is not entirely overpowered is the bard and the rogue; neither of them have the mass damage dealing capabilities (although use magic item is good)

-Cross

[Mathurin]

Your a little off on the rogue. A higher level rogue does evil things with sneak attack. They also do craploads of damage when sneak attack kicks in, so I guess you are left only with bards as being hindered in the damage department.

[DaleWind]

Monk Items are overpowered. When a rogue uses those Monk-only items, they are still overpowered. They can use wands, they get to cast spells from scrolls, use Monk-only items, + sneak attack and set traps. What else do you want?

This game is supposed to be easy, even on the Hard difficulty setting. See a mage? Run up, stunning fist... dead mage.

[Kibblez]

Cross said:

"The only class that is not entirely overpowered is the bard and the rogue; neither of them have the mass damage dealing capabilities (although use magic item is good) "

Apparently I am the only forum reader who has played a Bard (she's level 19 and still in Chapter 3, BTW). Bards get Ice Storm - which certainly has "mass damage dealing capabilites". Sadly, it is the only big nuke we seem to get, but being able to use the arcane wands as well as the devine wands makes up for that in some respects. (At one point I was carrying around 3 flamestrike wands, and one each of missles, paralysis, fire and power.

Bards do lack a mid-level damage spell - Sound Burst is very useful until you get to level six or so, then it lacks punch.

I can say that the game is easy as a Bard - I am zooming through the giant caves in Moonwood - it's not unusual to take on 4-6 giants and come out without any damage taken. I use the orc henchy and the summoned tiger. Having the options to melee or cast or both adds a certain fun element, keeping the game from boring hack-and-slash or nuke-nuke-nuke-rest-nuke-etc.

--Kibblez

[DaleWind]

I am playing a Bard right now, just in Ch 2.

I can't imagine a Bard being difficult, people have soloed the game with a bard on the hardest setting before. Like thief, they get the Use Magic Device skill, which means they can get a very high AC without armor (Robe of the Dark Moon, or the Mage robes), plus they can cast spells...

[Nygma]

Originally posted by NightFallMyriad
So you you took feats like Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude and Iron Will to up your saving throws? That seems a little excessive considering the monk's saving throws are the best in the game already.

Yes, but I was "roleplaying" as far as I could with such an overpowering character. The power attack I see as a brawler's attack, wading in fists swinging, with less chance of hitting but if it lands, it hurts. I wanted more the elusive, precise-striking agile character with will of, well, iron.

Besides, with the +2 to will and reflex saves, I ended up with 22 for each. So for DC 25 traps and spells, I had to roll a 1 or 2 to fail, versus a 1, 2, 3, or 4. Minor, but every bit counts! Plus, it helps make you more immune early in the game before your saves hit the stratosphere.

I was a human. You get only one more feat, so maybe elf or half-elf would be better for the other benefits you get. The main thing for a monk I think is to choose one of the medium races if you're powergaming. That way, once you get Improved Knockdown you can knockdown anything in the game that's not immune. (I believe you can knockdown one size above you, and with Imp. Knockdown it's as though you were one size larger (medium becomes large - can knockdown very large). If you're a small race, I don't think you'll be able to knockdown golems and giants.)

[Heavens Myst]

game is too easy

I've played through the game twice now since I got the game about 10 days ago. First I played a 20 Fighter thru on Normal, then a 20 Monk thru on D&D Hardcore.

My observation was that they are both about the same. Monk is pain up to level 6 or so since you can't use any equipment yet. Also when you look at the class at level 20 and see all those things they get, you're like DAMN they don't need all that. But actually a lot of the bonuses monks get appear much more useful than they really are:

Spell Resistance: Who noticed NPCs casting harmful spells anyway?

Bonus Feats: Fighters get what, six to pick from anyway?

Extra Saves: Will save is really only good for the goddamn mummy fear. Fortitude save is basically useless except for avoiding the effect of cold and one other trap. Reflex save is nice combined with both evasions since your nearly immune to the 'reloader' traps.

Poison/Disease immunity: Healing Kits make this a kind of non-issue. Maybe the early disease immunity lets you go to blacklake district immediately?

Flury of Blows is nice (same effect as rapid shot though), as is stunning fist. But I didn't really use stunning fist that often, since it was usually saved against on things I'd want to use it on (w/ 16 starting WIS + all extras). Plus....i dont like where it is on the radial menu and I didn't want to use the F-buttons constantly =D

And unless you leech a ton of XP off monster spawn spots you won't really enjoy the 20/+1 damage reduction since almost everything in the end is carrying a magic weapon.


Anyway, I personally found the fighter to be a bit easier, although that might have been because of the rediculous decision to put the best (IMO) greatsword in the game in the green griffon inn for a measly 50k. +3 Hit Points on nearly every attack = overpowered, no? But the game breaking feat is knockdown, as said before its just way overpowered. -4 penalty is nothing for what it does.

Also just not to rant on fighter types, I created a little module with three ancient (level 34ish dragons) all in one room non-hostile to start. I popped in a level 20 sorcerer, picked my spells that looked good (since it was my first time using spells wheee). Summoned my familiar (panther) and an elder elemental, put soem protections on. Hasted myself. Then cast flame arrow at one of the dragons to make them all go hostile. That did about 40 damage or so, then I cast another since it looked cool, same damage roughly. Now I have 3 dragons coming toward me, although one was slightly around the corner with my fam/ele going to intercept. Horrid Wilting looks powerful, cast that at the middle dragon so to get them all effected. Oops that killed the first dragon, then cast it twice more and the other two were dead. Both my fam and ele were 'uninjured' because the dragons were only interested in coming after me for some reason. So I basically pissed my pants at that, then vowed sorc would be my next new character.

Basically in a nutshell the game is just way to easy. Some feats/skills/spells/items are just way of out alignment compared to each other.

Disarm should be a nice feat, but why disarm when you can knock em down and kill them before they regain their feet? Parry...excuse me what? Parry? lol Im not letting Daelen or Grimgnaw get all the kills.

Also, the differences between Norma, Hardcore, and Very Difficult are basically nil if I remember right. Just some stun effects work different and some (paralyzing i think) last longer. Which basically means you get to sit with your thumbs up your butt longer when you trip a sonic or cold trap and don't make the save (damn those monk bastards).

To the question why monks get concentration: Concentration also affects your ability to ignore taunt. Monks probably get this since they are disciplined and aren't fazed by someone tauning them. Moot point though because I didn't see anything use taunt in the game. Why they don't get discipline was kind of odd to me though.

Anyway Ive been up about 25 hours (with nothing to eat but a Drumstick icecream cone for the past 13 or so =/) so I have an excuse if this is incoherent, words misspelled, etc.