Why do people believe?

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 12:08 am

(Just noticed I missed a bit of the religion discussion so I thought that I would post on something related that always puzzled me)

Well of course we all believe lots of stuff like I believe that I am sitting at my desk etc.

I mean why do people believe so many obviously false and strange things. For example some people believe that their lives are determined by stars other that various crystals can cure you of any number of diseases. People pay thousands of pounds to have somebody hold his hands a few centimetres over your skin which shows that people really believe this stuff. People believe in fairies, auras you name it - its so weird.

But why? Is it really all down to wishful thinking? I am inclined to believe this. Most superstitions contains an extremely optimistic message to those that believe. This is most evident in the big religions that for the most promise eternal life and happiness for the believer at the same time as justice and pain unto the evil and the unbelievers. Thus we can look forward to a justice in death that we never found in life - what dream could be more beautiful!?
This optimistic message is of course very clear in all the healing stuff as well. Things like horoscopes gives the one that takes heed the chance to know the future to a certain extend and so perhaps the opportunity to lessen the bad times and take advantage of the good times. How nice that would be.

So do you think there is more to it than that? or maybe I have just insulted your dearest belief?

CM · Post by CM » Tue Jul 16, 2002 12:10 am

I was born in a muslim family, so i never really asked the question. But to me it just seems empty that there is no higher goal to be attained - many religions provide that i.e. heaven. If our lives are just for us to live nicely and/or suffer I find that pretty meaningless.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:13 am

Originally posted by CM
I was born in a muslim family, so i never really asked the question. But to me it just seems empty that there is no higher goal to be attained - many religions provide that i.e. heaven. If our lives are just for us to live nicely and/or suffer I find that pretty meaningless.

So you think life would be meaningless if there was nothing that followed it? Predictably I think the opposite. If eternal life and all that is good start after we are dead then what is life for? life is for being happy, loving and all the other experiences this crazy world provides - if that is not enough then it is not a problem with the world I think.

But of course there is no denying that it is a very optimistic message that there is eternal bliss (for the believer) after death.

CM · Post by CM » Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:21 am

I guess i would agree that, if all that is good starts after death, then it wouldnt be worth living on this plane. However in Islam your deeds in the present world count. Even if you are a believer that doesnt mean you will go to heaven. It is the actions and the deeds that are important, and not really how strong your faith is. Muslims are told to live with the idea that their actions will get them into heaven, thus they should be good people and act in a righteous manner. If they do so, then life hear and after death will be easier. However in the present day and age, life is being prolonged incredibly.

The experiences of this crazy world are indeed of merit. But what is the purpose of living if after death it doesnt matter at all?

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:22 am

I think people need something to hold on to in difficult times.

I am catholic myself, and I believe. But I don't go to the church, because I think it is not nessecarry if you believe.

Also mny people just believe, because they are raised to do so....

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:47 am

Originally posted by CM

The experiences of this crazy world are indeed of merit. But what is the purpose of living if after death it doesnt matter at all?

I don't understand this. I'm going to a party tonight but it is not an infinite party. Thus I wont go to the party and have fun because it will finish sometime. Sorry I don't understand.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:07 am

I have always wondered about this question and once started a thread about it...i will endeavour to find that one.

My Brother think that everyone has a latent need to believe in something...i am not so sure.

<edit> Here we are

Personally i think the need to believe is environmental, i do not (anymore) think it is necessarily an innate condition, i am beginning to suspect that parents and peer's have a greater impression on our divergence towards a need to believe.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:31 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
My Brother think that everyone has a latent need to believe in something...

That doesn't really explain all the perfectly happy atheists in the world, does it?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:37 am

Originally posted by Georgi
That doesn't really explain all the perfectly happy atheists in the world, does it?

They in my opinion make a large point in not believing, even to the point of over compensation, i prefer the agnostic term, one who doesn't have a care either way...it could be construed that a lot of aethiests believe in aethism

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:49 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
They in my opinion make a large point in not believing, even to the point of over compensation, i prefer the agnostic term, one who doesn't have a care either way...it could be construed that a lot of aethiests believe in aethism

Hmm, interesting point... although agnostics don't necessarily not care either way, they're just not sure. Probably a lot of atheists also just don't care, I suppose it just depends how people prefer to describe themselves. Not sure about belief in atheism... since atheism is by definition lack of belief.

CM · Post by CM » Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:53 am

Originally posted by Tom

I don't understand this. I'm going to a party tonight but it is not an infinite party. Thus I wont go to the party and have fun because it will finish sometime. Sorry I don't understand.

My point was that there are experiences in this world. We learn we adapt and basically do good or evil deeds. But what is the use of living or of learning if they have no effect or outcome after death. If none of what i learn counts after i die, why should i live? I can kill myself now, skip the heart ache and pain (a very big part of present day life). I dont have to waste my time in college or with work or doing anything. Does this clear things up?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:57 am

Originally posted by Georgi

Hmm, interesting point... although agnostics don't necessarily not care either way, they're just not sure. Probably a lot of atheists also just don't care, I suppose it just depends how people prefer to describe themselves. Not sure about belief in atheism... since atheism is by definition lack of belief.

I can see this descending into semantics

I have heard it argued that aethism is somewhat of a contradiction anyway, the argument is that aetheism requires one to have already accepted the possibility of their being that religion/belief but decide not to accept it, rather than the agnostic who just doesn't know/care either way. By saying one is an aetheist it does direct a certain anti-belief. Not sure myself, but that is the arguement.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:05 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
I can see this descending into semantics

I think it already did.

I can see what you mean, but, well, I don't really care enough to argue about it.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:09 am

Originally posted by Georgi
I think it already did. I can see what you mean, but, well, I don't really care enough to argue about it.

LMAO

Were we arguing? I guess you fall more into the agnostic then?

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:10 am

@Sleep: I feel I must write something short in defence of my "belief" here.

I guess according to some people I would be agnostic and not atheist. But this is how I view the problem:

There is alot of things we cant know for certain, infact nothing you know you can be 100% sure of. However the only way (imo) to go through life is to use what you have at your disposal (eyes, ears etc, and in a wider context science) to figure out whats likely. So far I havnt seen anything that imo points towards the existance of something divine. That does ofcourse not mean I know there is no such thing, but it means all my actions will be guided by the asumption that there is none.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:17 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
Were we arguing? I guess you fall more into the agnostic then?

Well probably not, but you know what I mean.

Not IMO...

Dottie explains it better than I could anyway.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:27 am

Originally posted by Dottie
There is alot of things we cant know for certain, infact nothing you know you can be 100% sure of. However the only way (imo) to go through life is to use what you have at your disposal (eyes, ears etc, and in a wider context science) to figure out whats likely. So far I havnt seen anything that imo points towards the existance of something divine. That does ofcourse not mean I know there is no such thing, but it means all my actions will be guided by the asumption that there is none.

Okay so what would happen if you did see something that made you believe, would you change your philosophy?

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:36 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep

Okay so what would happen if you did see something that made you believe, would you change your philosophy?

Not my philosophy, but my opinion on dinvine existance, yes.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:50 am

Originally posted by Dottie
Not my philosophy, but my opinion on dinvine existance, yes.

This is sstarting ot sound like 200 questions

Does your current philosophy (by extension belief) keep you happy/content?

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 4:03 am

@Sleep: I think to prove causuality here is abit tricky to say the least, but I have never percieved my opinions to be depressing in any way, Or felt a need for "something more".