What follows death? (no spam)

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:43 pm

Originally posted by Beldin

BUT - and that's the point - a parent doesn't punish his child with eternal and painful torment.... but I'm just picking words now...

I'll wait for M&M's answer for somethng more elaborate....I don't want to repeat myself...

My answer? Go read the Bible. It's all there in black and white.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:49 pm

My answer? Go read the Bible. It's all there in black and white.

and thousands of shades of grey.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:55 pm

Re: Re: What follows death?

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
I'm not so sure that good and evil, right and wrong do exist. It's all a matter of perspective. Hitler thought he was doing the right thing by exterminating the Jews. Dubyah doubtless thinks he's doing the right thing in his policies. Hence it doesn't really make a difference how you lived your life except in how you will be remembered.
This is just my opinion, you understand, based upon my own experiences and observations.

Just out of curiousity, why is judgement a thing to be feared? Accepting a dual notion of good and evil, presumably if you live your life more good than evil you'll be fine come judgement.

EDIT Tam-At least we'll get coffee when ever we want. Valhalla could be fun too. save me a good seat if you get there first.

Hitler was doing the right thing by exterminating the Jews? Pardon my bluntness, but what planet are you from? I don't care what perspective you adhere to, but the murder of innocent people is evil and wrong no matter how convinced you are that it's not.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:56 pm

Originally posted by Obsidian

and thousands of shades of grey.

Can you give us an example of, say, ten shades of grey? 'Shouldn't be difficult, since 10 is but .01% of a thousand.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:01 pm

Re: man, god?

Originally posted by RandomThug
Man created god in his likeliness.

But while I live, I refuse to be fodder for blind faith.

viva la biblebabble.com my new found friend.

thug

Too late, cuz that's about the only kind of faith you presently have.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:07 pm

I'd like to remind everybody that this topic is limited to "What follows death?" It is not meant to be a discussion of any particular religion's religious books, except in so far as they relate to the post-death experience; and faith as a subject is probably best left for another thread, one which has asbestos-lined walls. Thanks.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:10 pm

Re: Re: What follows death?

Originally posted by Beldin

@Eminem: Just a question - do you (personally) really believe that your god is just some kind of "angry old man" who passes relentless judgement on you ? I seems kind of an "low" occupation for such a supreme being.
Aren't you doing your god injustice by believing he is nothing but a clerk, keeping track of how many lollies you stole as a kid ?

I'm not really a believer, but IF I try to imagine "my" god I just can't bring myself to see him as an accountant - if he (or she) is really a surpreme being which created us he's BOUND to forgive us - after all HE made the world what it is today, and therefore we can't be held responsible for HIS mess...

Honestly - an ALL-POWERFUL god has by definition ALSO to be an ALL-FORGIVING god. Otherwise he'd be nothing less than a PUNISHER, a HEADSMAN - an ANGRY god who hurls thunderbolts at mortals....a choleric (sp?) in other words, and I really can't imagine a choleric god..

No worries,

Beldin

Your understanding of the Christian God, is, frankly, elementary, and very similar to that of the ancient Greeks and Romans. Yahweh is NOT Zeus. Jesus is NOT Hermes. He's unimaginably more complicated than anything man can ever hope to conceive.
Instead of trying to make God in YOUR image of what he should be, examine what he and his prophets have to say about him.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:33 pm

Again, this is not a forum for attacks or defense of any given religion. Please, if you want to do this, start a thread and begin by acknowledging each other as responsible human beings before you tear one another's gall bladders out. Okay?

@Eminem, I'll allow that you were technically answering a question. But please, let's take that kind of thing elsewhere in the future--and that applies to everybody.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Fri Jul 12, 2002 12:23 am

Your bluntness is excused.

Originally posted by EMINEM

Hitler was doing the right thing by exterminating the Jews? Pardon my bluntness, but what planet are you from? I don't care what perspective you adhere to, but the murder of innocent people is evil and wrong no matter how convinced you are that it's not.

Please read my post again, I quite specifically stated he thought he was doing the right thing. I never claimed that was in keeping with my views.
I'm reasonably certain I'm from Earth, but then again you and I seem to be living on two different worlds so maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe you are.
Perspective again, see?

BTW, how long ago did you move to America and how long have you been learning english for?

Beldin · Post by **Beldin** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 2:58 am

Originally posted by fable

I can't see getting so spiritually close to one's deity without experiencing an intense pain that would come from 1) sensing perfection, 2) realizing one's imperfection, and 3) knowing that perfection was unattainable (in those specific religious systems). So I guess you could say that I can see a sort of mixture of heaven and hell after death as a possibility: experiencing a nearness to one's deity as great pain outside of any limited, human notions of time, until such imperfections are either burnt away, or the individual flees into...well, some other dream. Just my POV.

@Fable - maybe you just came up with the real definition for "hell"....maybe THAT was what the author of the bible had in mind when talking about "eternal torment"....

Beldin

EDIT:

Originally posted by fable
Again, this is not a forum for attacks or defense of any given religion. Please, if you want to do this, start a thread and begin by acknowledging each other as responsible human beings before you tear one another's gall bladders out. Okay?

@Eminem, I'll allow that you were technically answering a question. But please, let's take that kind of thing elsewhere in the future--and that applies to everybody.

No worries, fable, I'm not offended - in fact I like a spirited argument as long as it doesn't get "personal" (as in "name calling"..) ... and I hope I haven't offended anyone. I just believe in freedom of speech and freedom of beliefs.

Beldin

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 5:22 am

@Ode, @Eminem, please take it to PMs. Any future posts in this thread from the two of you aimed directly at one another will be deleted, and the poster warned. Sorry, but I've already asked twice that this kind of off-topic sniping be stopped. I invite your participation on the subject, but I won't let it interfere with the rules, everybody's enjoyment, or their ability to respond on this subject, if they so choose.

T'lainya · Post by **T'lainya** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 8:50 am

I second Fable on this...Please remain civil and on topic.

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:15 am

In the name of all that is boring

I wanna quote a drunken musician here... I loved this death quote...

"I wanna die in an airplane or a car crash, I dont wanna miss death... it only happens once" Jim Morrison..

somehting like that.

blindly led,
thug

Ode to a Grasshopper · Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:49 am

I was answering a question put to me, @Fable. I was also about as polite as was possible in giving an answer whilst still pointing out that I am not in agreement with the holocausts of WW2.
However, out of respect for most of the people here at GB, and yourself in particular, I'll hold my tongue. My apologies that I had not had the chance to answer EMINEM's query before your most recent warning.

EDIT-I asked about EMINEM's english in the interests of ensuring a clear understanding of one another's posts, to avoid another misunderstanding of the same type as before. If english is his native language and he simply misunderstood my original "point of view" post then I apologize most deeply to him for my mistake.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 12:51 pm

I do not believe in any other life for humans, than our present life form. I do not believe in a spiritual/transcendental dimension/aspect of human existance. Thus, I believe that when I die, I simply cease to exist. I will not be like sleep, when you sleep you have a certain degree of awareness and your body still registers sensory stimuli. I believe there is no aspect of me that will live on, independant of my physical, anatomical body. I believe I will either get burned to ashes, or eaten by larvae, depending on what my relatives wish to do with my corpse when I am dead. That's all.

Like Frogus, I believe the only way for me to "continue to exist" in a respect, is in the mind and memory of other people. I hope that my deeds as a scientist will make a mark beyond my personal life, since I hope to add some valuable knowledge to the quest of curing severe diseases and disorders connected to brain functioning. I also hope I will get children, and if so, my genes will be passed on. However, I, as an indivudual being, will just be non-existant. Like Marcel Duchamp once said: "When I am dead, I won't notice."