War on Terrorism: Accounts of the Detained (no Spam)

CM · Post by CM » Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:44 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/ ... 074857.stm

The article is pretty short, but there are two quotes which i want to discuss:

"I was treated badly because I am a Muslim.

"Carrying a Muslim name should not be a crime. Not every Muslim is an extremist or a terrorist."

"For me America was the dreamland. I used to think that I was lucky to live in a liberal and democratic country.

But the dreamland became hell for me after 11 September,"

There are more quotes like this in the news item.
And there have been many such examples in the news within muslim countries.
So the question that comes to my mind:

A. Is it safe for muslims in the US today?
B. Isn't this racial profiling remicient of many totalitarian states?

I can understand that the US has to protect its people, and that muslims were the cause of the WTC attacks, however does that mean every muslim must be targetted and grilled like a terrorist?

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Sat Jun 29, 2002 6:50 pm

Unfortunitly, I think there really isn't a way to do this right. Of course, you have to be cautious, but there is no clear line of when it becomes opression.

Chanak · Post by **Chanak** » Sat Jun 29, 2002 8:08 pm

@CM:

Unfortunately, this goes back much farther than the Sep. 11th incident. I recall 1979, when American hostages were held in Iran, orchestrated by a proclaimed "Islamic" state. Bear in mind that I am somewhat familiar with Islam beyond what I read, see or hear in the news, so I pay little heed to what I know is fantasy.

What these people are experiencing are the effects of ignorance that stretch back to the days after the Shah of Iran (who was pro-US, btw) was deposed by the revolution there. The hostage situation in the U.S. embassy in Iran sparked a long standing ill-will towards Islam in this country, I'm sad to say, that was brought to the surface again by the Sep. 11th attack. I recall those days in 1979 well, and I also recall the anti-Islamic sentiment that ran thorugh many Americans at the time. Most Americans lack an understanding of Islam, which breeds this prejudice.

As for myself, I have taken the time in the past to look into Islam, and also have listened to many Islamic scholars express their opinions concerning the terrorists that perpetrated the attack. To judge Islam by the actions of these terrorists is most unfortunate. I know otherwise.

Gaxx has a point, however - this is new terroritory for the US to tread in, unlike European countries, who have existed with the threat of terrorism for many years. I recall many bombings while I lived in Germany in the mid 1980's as a teenager.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Sun Jun 30, 2002 1:08 am

@Fas

Its not only the US my friend, unfortunately Australia and no doubt many of the other Western countries have also placed a cautious approach to the Muslim coummunities. The bad is thing is that its these type of situations that tend to breed contempt amongst the younger generations.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sun Jun 30, 2002 1:57 am

Tam's right, unfortunately. In the paper it's rare to go two or three days without reading a letter proclaiming that every muslim immigrant is a terrorist, and so are those who oppose the Australian government's mandatory detention laws.
There have been attacks on mosques here as well, all of which have been played down by the media.

CM · Post by CM » Sun Jun 30, 2002 3:53 am

I guess i am at a loss of words, for this scenerio. This also reminded me (thanks Chanak) to bring up that Islam thread i started. I was just shocked by the whole thing. Another example was 2 days ago, where a Pakistani was killed in jail. He was one of the 1000 detained after sept. 11th. There still has been no defined cause of his death, and neither is there going to be an investigation from what i have read. It is just sad. Honestly something i didn't expect from the US govt.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sun Jun 30, 2002 4:39 am

Originally posted by CM
Honestly something i didn't expect from the US govt.

How come?

CM · Post by CM » Sun Jun 30, 2002 8:26 am

Well for all the faults of the US govt, they have always maintained human rights and civil liberties. It is the core value of the american system. That every man is innocent until proven guilty. Everybody deserves a fair trial, everybody deserves the basic human rights not awarded by man dictators or other groups. But sadly since bush came to power, Somali Warlords do a better job at maintaining human rights than Bush and his group does.

The present US system violates basic human rights. I just expected more of the US system, esp. the examples that have been set in the past.

Word · Post by **Word** » Sun Jun 30, 2002 8:43 am

When "normal" American citizens get scared we often tend to become violent and our fear is often used by the government to expand its powers while our rights go down the toilet.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Sun Jun 30, 2002 8:45 am

People fear greatly...

...what they do not understand...

...talk about ignorance is bliss :sarcasm: ...

...while others use religion to justify their selfish motives, putting the religion itself in a bad light among non-believers...

...I do not agree with racial profiling (who would, especially if one himself is at the receiving end?)...

...but given the circumstances, what then would be a more effective way without having to offend the innocent ones?

Word · Post by **Word** » Sun Jun 30, 2002 8:54 am

If you dont mind me going on a limb for my absolutly brilliant solution to it all.

It is my firm belief that if America rids itself of dependency upon the privately owned automobile the threat of terrorism will be lessened

I realize the problems I just wanted to here some thoughts on this.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Sun Jun 30, 2002 8:30 pm

@Word, good idea.

Now try convincing the average american.

Word · Post by **Word** » Sun Jun 30, 2002 8:41 pm

@Gaxx what nationality do you happen to be?(im just curious)

Oh and um yeah spreading the word is always the problem isnt it.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Sun Jun 30, 2002 9:00 pm

I'm Canadian.

........eh?

Word · Post by **Word** » Sun Jun 30, 2002 9:47 pm

@Gaxx

Thanx i was wondering because you liked the idea and i thought "HEs not american!!"

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Sun Jun 30, 2002 10:18 pm

I'd be interested to see what happens on the 4th of July especially after reading this link from the International Herald Tribune.

However I doubt the public would discourage Muslims from attending the celebrations associated with the Americans Independance Day.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jul 01, 2002 7:19 am

The Saudis who are our "friends" in the Middle East sell us oil and it has been proven that they put 50% of the profit into buying US bonds in order to restricted our international freedom with the threat of cashing in those very bonds.

@Word, is this a substantiated fact? If so, please provide evidence. If not, it's flaming another nationality--and that's not tolerated, here.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Mon Jul 01, 2002 9:50 am

Religion is not the only component to this latest anti-Islam sentiment over here; there is a strong racial element. For instance, no one is questioning the loyalty of black Muslims, but they worship the God of the same name as Pakistani Muslims and you don't see us shipping them back to Africa via Liberia.

America is a nation of Christians. We tolerate everyone else, but the predominant religious self-identity are the Christian denominations. We tolerate Jews because they generally come from the same cultural and racial stock as WASP America, but the general attitude is that everyone else is here out of our good graces.

When things are good, we welcome everyone with open arms (provided that they are willing to do the menial jobs other Americans don't want to do). However, when things turn bad, Americans need someone to blame; right now foreign-looking Muslims are the target of choice.

Unfortunately, the actual improvements in national security seen by these mass deportations is negligible. Most of the people being repatriated are here on expired work or student visas. They're not terrorists and they're not out to harm America. They're going home with strong anti-America feelings which may not forment into militant actions, but it still hurts us in the long run. The problem with everything Dubya, Ashcroft el al are doing is that the increased security is a chimera; sure it makes us feel better, but it does not actually increase our national security, nor does it address the root cause of anti-American terrorism (namely: why do people hate the United States?), in fact, our leaders are fostering these feelings.

Word · Post by **Word** » Mon Jul 01, 2002 10:10 am

@fable sorry but I am not 100% sure I do things like that every so often. I got the information from my history proffesor whom i trust to be right so Im like 90% sure. I know he is not racist if that pops into your mind. I just dont know where to find stuff like that to confirm it so if you could help?

sorry if i offended someone with that but the move would make great business sense for the government of Saudi Arabia to do so.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jul 01, 2002 11:12 am

Originally posted by Word
@fable sorry but I am not 100% sure I do things like that every so often. I got the information from my history proffesor whom i trust to be right so Im like 90% sure. I know he is not racist if that pops into your mind. I just dont know where to find stuff like that to confirm it so if you could help?

It's not my place to verify the factual content of your own statements, it's yours. And this frankly sounds like rampant prejudice. Please don't state such things again in these forums about a specific nationality, race, religion, etc, again, unless you can point to facts that adequately prove 'em.