Rogue/Thief !?

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 3:22 am

What's the differnece between a rogue(NWN) and a thief(BG/IWD)?

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 3:38 am

Nothing really. They do pretty much exactly the same things...

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 3:49 pm

Semantics. The Rogue is the 3E version of the Thief. The rogue gets feats, etc. while the thief (as an AD&D class) does not.

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 4:18 pm

Originally posted by Kayless
Semantics. The Rogue is the 3E version of the Thief. The rogue gets feats, etc. while the thief (as an AD&D class) does not.

English is not my native language, so i don't understand completely.
What are feats, and what kind of differences do you mean?

seraphim · Post by **seraphim** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 4:41 pm

feats are like the old d&d skills but they are more refined. for a pretty good list of the ones that are to be used in the upcoming icewind dale, check this link to gamebanshee's iwd2 page

http://www.gamebanshee.com/icewinddaleii/feats.php

there is a long list of all kinds of feats. most should be in NWN as well as they both use 3 Edition Dungeons and Dragons rules.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 9:04 am

Courtesy of Dictionary.com:

rogue
An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal.

One who is playfully mischievous; a scamp.

A wandering beggar; a vagrant.

A vicious and solitary animal, especially an elephant that has separated itself from its herd.

An organism, especially a plant, that shows an undesirable variation from a standard.[/list=1]thief
One who steals, especially by stealth.[/list=1]

Rattman · Post by **Rattman** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 12:26 pm

a scampy elephant? are you quite mad

wow imagin a elephant familer

i'd call him scamp

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 2:59 am

I belive that in 2nd Ed., Thieves and Bards are considered Rogues just as Druids and Clerics are considered Priests.

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 6:56 pm

The rogue in NWN is a class that encompasses more than just stealing. The rogue class receives more skill points per level than other classes so they can be seen as the most skilled characters. Like thieves in previous rulesets they are decent fighters but not as good as clerics or the warriors (barbarian paladin ranger and fighter). They get sneak attacks which are similar to backstabs but implemented a little differently. They also receive various dodges and evasions as they level up making them quite difficult to hit.

In terms of skills, the rogue can pick from a large variety of skills in which to advance favorably (cheaply). Favored skills for rogues include the thieving standbys like hiding and moving silently, setting and disarming traps and pickpocketing, but they also include combat skills like parry and heal, the persuade skill for diplomatic efforts, and use magic device, allowing the rogue to use wands and scrolls.

This means that for a diplomat or nobleman type character the best choice would likely be rogue or bard (bard is similar to rogue, with a little different skill set, some spells, and less skills points)

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Jun 22, 2002 7:16 am

Decent fighters my backside! Look at the ranking they take in Base Attack Bonus advances:

+20 Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger
+15 Bard, Cleric, Druid, Monk, Rogue
+10 Sorcerer, Wizard

Average. Look at their Hit Points:

d12 Barbarian
d10 Fighter, Paladin, Ranger
d8 Cleric, Druid, Monk
d6 Bard, Rogue
d4 Sorcerer, Wizard

Below average. Look at their weapon proficiency:

All Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger
Most Bard
Some Cleric, Druid, Monk, Rogue, Sorcerer
Few Wizard

Below average. Look at their armor proficiency:

All Cleric, Fighter, Paladin
Most Barbarian, Bard, Ranger
Some Druid, Rogue
None Monk, Sorcerer, Wizard

Below average.

Out of eleven classes, they finish 9th, just above Sorcerer and Wizard (which are truly pathetic). Hardly decent.

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Sat Jun 22, 2002 3:59 pm

Xyx!!!! The man, the myth, the frickin' legend

what the hell have you been up to? I haven't seen you in a long time! Do you have NWN yet?

Well anyway, that is a very cutting analysis. You are right in many ways there of course. I'll just say a few things - one, your just restating what I said - I said that the rogue is a decent fighter, just not as good as the real fighters or clerics. Well that's what you said too. Saying that the rogue finishes 9th is deceptive because their are 4 fighter classes, the most subdivisions of any type. Also you do not give any weight to the couple decent advantages rogues get to help them in combat - the sneak attack to help them do more damage and the various stealths and evasions to help them not get hit. I don't know how i would factor this stuff in to your evaluation but it helps somewhat.

However, for the record I will say that if you want to make a rogue that can fight well, do a rogue/fighter, rogue/barbarian, or rogue/ranger (would be cool for the dual-wielding rogue type character).....the proficiency issue gets solved cheaply, you get a little better attack bonus, and you still get plenty of skill points, sneak attack, and stealth. Problem solved

And in NWN, you can carry some plate mail, hotkey it, and switch it out when you want to do some thieving (just not in combat)....easy as 1,2,3.