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Be respectful of other people's countries. No SPAM!

Anything goes... just keep it clean.
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel »

Re: Re: Be respectful of other people's countries. No SPAM!
Originally posted by KidD01
<EDIT>BTW I'm not proud with my country :eek: It might be surprising for some SYMers. But I don't want to discuss the topic. ;)
Proud or not, I wouldn't take cheap shots at your country. No country ever created is all good, how can it be when humans make it. :)

Am I proud the US put a man on the moon? Yes.

Am I proud people get killed in a US war? No.

Am I proud the US spent untolds amount of money to try to prevent unnessary death? Yes.

Am I proud it doesn't always work? No.

Am I proud my home state was ground zero of the worst (I believe) civil rights fights in the US? No.

Am I proud to have the KKK come downtown and have a name calling rally? No.

But I do understand going downtown and calling them names back is only lowering myself to their level, something I will not do.
"Vile and evil, yes. But, That's Weasel" From BS's book, MD 20/20: Fine Wines of Rocky Flop.
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fable
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Post by fable »

Originally posted by Kayless

I feel the same way. The cadre of posters who frequent serious topics often get quite vocal and upset in their debates (no one exempt), which is why I usually avoid such threads (Not to mention the fact that casual observers of politics tend to get bushwhacked in these discussions by those who make it their business to known the intimate details of foreign politics. The layman feels like an outcast).
Yet everyone in SYM *is* a layman, so that's really not a good reason to withhold a well-considered opinion. One of the most attractive features of SYM, IMO, is the way thoughtful people can present informed views that don't agree, while highlighting details of an issue I'd never noticed before. :)
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
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Kayless
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Post by Kayless »

Originally posted by fable
Yet everyone in SYM *is* a layman, so that's really not a good reason to withhold a well-considered opinion. One of the most attractive features of SYM, IMO, is the way thoughtful people can present informed views that don't agree, while highlighting details of an issue I'd never noticed before. :)
Some men are more lay than others. Image So to avoid "Foot-in-Mouth" disease, (not be confused with Hoof-and-Mouth) I avoid topics where I know I'm out of my depth (which basically limits me to one-word stories and most bar threads). Image
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Her hardest hue to hold.
Her early leaf’s a flower;
But only so an hour.
Then leaf subsides to leaf.
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Nippy
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Post by Nippy »

I will stand up and admit right now that some of these conversations get well over my head. I regrettably know little about foreign politics but in discussions of history, particuarly on Communist revolution, The Third Reich and Britain from 1815-1870 is something that I do know about. I generally avoid most of these arguments all though sometimes my pride gets a head of me and I will make a comment on a Christianity thread, or try (try being the operative word :D ) in a thread on a scientific breakthrough. I enjoy reading some of these debates and to be perfectly honest I find them brilliant tools for honing my essay skills, they are good for my writing. :)

I find that this community is so well-educated and articulate that there is no point me trying to argue something, but if I have a go, I know I'm not going to be mared at or shot down, all of the arguments are well-structured and professional. You guys do more research than I'm doing for my A-levels!

When I see something like Weasel's original post, I know that that is a tiny majority on this board and that they really won't last long...
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel »

Originally posted by Vivien
I see your point of view *hug* It's hard know (for me) how to even approach some topics...because of all the tensions happening right now. *hug*
The first step is always the hardest. :) I believe Fable, HLD and CE are where they are today by asking "why, how".


Don't ever feel your opinion is not worth posting. :)
"Vile and evil, yes. But, That's Weasel" From BS's book, MD 20/20: Fine Wines of Rocky Flop.
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der Moench
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Post by der Moench »

Originally posted by Nippy
...I find that this community is so well-educated and articulate that there is no point me trying to argue something, but if I have a go, I know I'm not going to be mared at or shot down, all of the arguments are well-structured and professional. You guys do more research than I'm doing for my A-levels!...
I'm not sure how this thread went from attacking people's national identities to a debate on the merits of debating, but I have a few thoughts on the latter.

@Nippy: never hesitant to state your opinion! I have a favorite quote in my book'o'quotes on this subject:

“The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of opinion, is that it is robbing the human race . . . If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose - what is almost as great a benefit - the clearer perception and livlier impression of truth, produced by it’s collision with error.”

This quote indicates that nothing can be lost by speaking up, but a great deal may be gained. You (Nippy) are right to say that people here on SYM are an exceptional lot, and that you know you will never be put down for your views - so let us hear them!

Ironically, I must admit that I NEVER post in those whacky political and/or philosophical discussions. I really don't recall such things existing way back when I started lurking here, and so they seem somehow ... unnatural to me. But I like lurking in them when they aren't getting too nasty.

Peace. :cool:
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Post by C Elegans »

I think we should try to be respectful not only to each others countries, but to each others life-styles, opinions and
worldviews. However, being respectful does not mean being uncritical. I noted in the Bush and Europe-thread that one poster was highly critical to Europe and EU, and called EU "The people's republic of Europa". Of course some posters found this description of Europe not only incorrect, but also insulting. However, also note the implicit critisism of China, that makes people automatically take a comparison to China as an insult.

I would actually say that the most insulting and disrespectful comments in that thread, were made towards China. As Westerners, I think we often forget that China is not only the Culture Revolution and violations of human rights. Before the culture revolution, China had 5000 years of civilation, at long times the far most advanced in the world both technologically and structurally. How hurting wouldn't it be for Chinese people (who haven't even elected their political leaders) to read that we take for granted that a comparison to China is an insult?

Now, I don't want to make a fuzz out of this, I just use to point out that we must both be respectful, and able to critisise different phenomenen. Hell, regardless of China's history, their current political leaders are violating human rights, which I find unacceptable. Regardless of 2000 years of discrimination and ethic cleansing of Jewish people, the state of Israel are violating human rights, and I think Sharon is a horrible person, not only for his current politics, but also for his role in slaughtering innocent civilians in Libya. Regardless of Sweden's nice human rights record, I still think the Osmo Vallo case (a man who were "mysteriously killed" when on drugs and arrested by the police) is a legal injustice, and I still think the Swedish immigration policy in inhumane. Being critical is not the same as being disrespectful. But critical views can easily become disrespectful when people don't present factual arguments for their opinions, and generalise too broadly. That's why I think all critisism, towards a person, a country, a system or anything, should be followed by a motivation. We don't have to express ourselves like the tabloid press.
Originally posted by Kayless

As a psychology student I’ve been wondering about this myself, and I’ve found that the souces of hatred are many and varied. Often it’s learned behavior, taught by a parent and passed on. Most times the origin of this hatred is spurious, though in some cases there are somewhat understandable origins. People who lost family members in the 9/11 attacks, or the family of Daniel Pearl have very legitimate reasons to feel nothing but loathing for those responsible for killing their loved ones. It takes a great deal of willpower not to embrace hatred and clump people of a certain religion or nationality into one big group to vent hatred at (especially since such blind hatred is what inspired the 9/11 attacks in the first place).
I had no idea you're a psychology student, Kayless :)

I agree very much that it takes hard work and willpower not to hate, when terrible things happen to you. Hate can be called the pathological form of aggression, and there's nothing wrong with aggression as a basic emotion we humans share with many other species - but a healthy and constructive way to deal with aggression is much more difficult to achive than simply letting it out as hate.

Let's say my children get murdered by a Russian man. Should I hate all Russians? Should I hate all men? Should I even hate the murderer? And, if I hate, what should I do about it? Seek revenge? On whom? And what do I achive by seeking revenge?

Generalisation sprung from hate, is one of mankinds most unpleasant features. The idea that revenge would ease our pain and our losses, is also a highly dangerous idea. Some people also confuse revenge and justice. Whereas I very well understand how "doing the same" to your antagonist can seems just, it is often not the case. If I kill the man who murdered my children, his children will be fatherless. Is that justice? If I kill his children because I wish to inflict the same pain on him that he did to me, his innocent children are bereft of life - is that justice?

Thinking about what one really wants to achive, goes a long way when we are looking to express unbearable feelings.

@Nippy and Viv: Please never hesitate to post your opinions. I don't :D Politics, science, religion - all these are topics of importance for and concerning all of mankind, not just a selected few. Not knowing anything should never be a reason not to express oneself - instead we can all learn something from each other since we are all experts and novices on different subjects.
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
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Kayless
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Post by Kayless »

Originally posted by C Elegans
I had no idea you're a psychology student, Kayless :)
I go to great lengths to hide it behind a blithe veneer of goofy emoticons. Image
Originally posted by C Elegans
I agree very much that it takes hard work and willpower not to hate, when terrible things happen to you. Hate can be called the pathological form of aggression, and there's nothing wrong with aggression as a basic emotion we humans share with many other species - but a healthy and constructive way to deal with aggression is much more difficult to achive than simply letting it out as hate.
Oh yes. Outrage over an injustice can lead someone to take positve steps to correct it. As John Walsh did by starting America's Most Wanted out of grief for his slain son. Emotions (however strong) are never wrong, it's how we act on those feelings that makes the difference. Image
Nature’s first green is gold,
Her hardest hue to hold.
Her early leaf’s a flower;
But only so an hour.
Then leaf subsides to leaf.
So Eden sank to grief,
So dawn goes down to day.
Nothing gold can stay.
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