Prices?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri May 24, 2002 5:21 am

Since we have so many technical guru's around i was wondering if they could give me some advice on pricing of computer parts.

I have managed to get a figure of approx £275 for the following:

AMD Duron 1GHz = £38
ABit KT7A v1.3 = £61
Crucial 256MB PC133 CAS-2 = £68
GlobalWin Case = £44
Enermax EG365AX-VE PSU (adjustable fan speed) = £49
CPU HeatSync & Fan = £14-£30

The processer is nothing special and is mostly there just for price, but i could always upgrade that

.

I have hard disks and CD-Roms lying around, i can find a floppy if necessary. What is the opinion? I don't have the money at the moment (damn car insurance) but i am investigating prices etc. Thoughts?

BTW i can get the Legacy Free Mobo from ABit for about £140

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » Fri May 24, 2002 5:42 am

I can only comment on what that price range would get you in NZ, but it looks good! That translates to roughly NZ$850, which is dirt cheap for a machine of that spec. Or is it computer hardware is just stupidly expensive here? The next mobo I'm looking at has a recommended price of around NZ$550 alone.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri May 24, 2002 5:54 am

Originally posted by Mr Flibble
I can only comment on what that price range would get you in NZ, but it looks good! That translates to roughly NZ$850, which is dirt cheap for a machine of that spec. Or is it computer hardware is just stupidly expensive here? The next mobo I'm looking at has a recommended price of around NZ$550 alone.

http://www.xe.com reckon it is about 853.987 NZD

These prices are not even trade either, they are online and they are the only suppliers of this stuff i can find, in fact that adjustable Fan is really, really new

What's your comp going to be parts wise roughly?

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:06 am

I've currenty got an Athlon 1200, 512MB DDR RAM and a good old (and slow) Gigabyte GA7-DXR+ motherboard. The onboard RAID is a biggie for me, currently have 2 60GB disks mirrored.

Asus have recently brought out a new board based on the VIA KT333 chipset which looks very good. With that will be new memory and probably an Athlon XP 2000+. Thankfully I can buy this lot through work at dealer prices instead of retail, but it's still going to be in the NZ$1200-1300 pricetag. I should probably look at a new graphics card too, still got a Geforce 256 that I picked up about 18 months ago. It was cheap then, can't even get them here anymore.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:15 am

I've currenty got an Athlon 1200, 512MB DDR RAM and a good old (and slow) Gigabyte GA7-DXR+ motherboard. The onboard RAID is a biggie for me, currently have 2 60GB disks mirrored.

That bring up a question i have about Raid which i was going to ask previously. Could one connect their CD-RW to a RAID and it not cause the speed to be downgraded to ATA33, i want to back up a great deal of my CDs but i find the lengthy process of imaging infuriating, but i still want to keep my hard disk running at ATA100. Plus if i have both CDrom and CD-RW drive on the same channel i keep running into Buffer Underun territory

So would RAID help my problem?

In reference to new system, if i can get a solution to my on-board problem then i will probably buy a new Video Card for my 1200 instead of a new system....although at the moment the new system is looking more likely. What are your reasons for upgrading, i would have thought the 1200 would be able to cope with most things still, do you do a lot of Video editing or something?

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:19 am

What is RAID?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:22 am

Originally posted by Yshania
What is RAID?

It's probably best to ask Ned for the specifics, i will give you are really basic idea.

It is like having another set of IDE interfaces on the Mobo

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:23 am

Over here, your computer would cost about $400, which as Mr Flibble says, is dirt cheap. Are those components purchased locally or via the internet?

I do most of my internet shopping at pricewatch.com but most of their vendors are stateside and do not ship internationally.

The KT7A doesn't have onboard video or audio so you're going to have to spend an additional $100 (~£69) on a video card and $20-50 (~£14-35) on a sound card.

At the pricewatch site, the KT7A is going for as low as $73 (£49.49, includes shipping), and the 1.0 GHz Duron for as low as $39 (£26.85, also includes shipping). However, remember that those prices are in the United States and include only domestic shipping. If you can find comparable prices over there across the pond, I'd try to get similar rates.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:27 am

Originally posted by Yshania
What is RAID?

An insecticide . . .

I have never heard of anyone running a RAID with CD-ROMs, but I think you'll still see the entire channel moving at the slower speed. If you're interested in maintaining performance and mixing and matching devices, why not go to SCSI or USB 2.0?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:31 am

Originally posted by HighLordDave
Over hear, your computer would cost about $400, which as Mr Flibble says, is dirt cheap. Are those components purchased locally or via the internet?

Via the Internet, http://www.overclockers.co.uk to be precise, they are the only people i can find who do the specialised parts, like the PSU.

The KT7A doesn't have onboard video or audio so you're going to have to spend an additional $100 (~£69) on a video card and $20-50 (~£14-35) on a sound card.

I have a AGP Banshee lying around and a SB Live i can stick in it

At the pricewatch site, the KT7A is going for as low as $73 (£49.49, includes shipping), and the 1.0 GHz Duron for as low as $39 (£26.85, also includes shipping). However, remember that those prices are in the United States and include only domestic shipping. If you can find comparable prices over there across the pond, I'd try to get similar rates.

Trade i could get the Duron for the same, not sure about the mobo though, i would have to check. Maybe i will look around for the mobo elsewhere at a cheaper price. You have to bear in mind for Viscous Annoying Tax (VAT) in the UK

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:33 am

Originally posted by HighLordDave
If you're interested in maintaining performance and mixing and matching devices, why not go to SCSI or USB 2.0?

The extra price and config, i will investigate those though

How would i use USB2 in reference to internal, one would surely have to get a substandard external CD-RW .

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:42 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
What are your reasons for upgrading, i would have thought the 1200 would be able to cope with most things still, do you do a lot of Video editing or something?

Naah, I'm just a computer freak who loves the latest technology.

RAID is Redundant Array of Inexpensive Drives. It's a method of securing data by using several disks to store the same information or increasing performance by spreading the data over several drives. I can go into the really serious aspects if you really want to know, but the basic RAID setup that most people use is RAID 1, also called mirroring. This means any time the computer writes information to one disk it puts the same info on a second disk, so if the first one fails you still have a good copy on the second disk.

@Mr Sleep, because it is only for use on hard disk drives, a RAID system will do nothing for CD-ROM or RW performance. If you have a new enough drive you will still benefit from the ATA133 interface. However this should also not interfere too much with your hard disks, but you will notice a bit of a performance hit. Wherever possible I have the primary disk on it's own IDE channel.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:47 am

I've seen USB 2.0 cards with internal connectors but finding internal USB devices is pretty hard. You can buy internal IDE devices and put them in external conversion cases for USB or Firewire and link them in a chain; of course if you're on a budget, this will drive the price up considerably.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:54 am

Originally posted by Mr Flibble
Naah, I'm just a computer freak who loves the latest technology.

Good enough reason for me!

RAID is Redundant Array of Inexpensive Drives.

I wonder where Mr Flibble rests on HLD's Geek points?

@Mr Sleep, because it is only for use on hard disk drives, a RAID system will do nothing for CD-ROM or RW performance.

I thought that might be the case

If you have a new enough drive you will still benefit from the ATA133 interface.

Drive, do you mean CD or Hard?

Wherever possible I have the primary disk on it's own IDE channel.

That is how i see it as well and that is what my current set up is, i am thinking of upgrading my CD-RW instead, which might make the Buffer under-run less of an issue. Any reccommendations?

@HLD, we have hard disks in the office on external USB boxes, the only issue with those is that they are very glitchy when connected to an external hub, they seem to need a high powered hub like the one connected to one's mobo. They do have external power sources through adaptors but it seems they need a lot otherwise as well. Plus they aren't very fast and quite often fall over.

Firewire isn't something i had considered, i could in theory use an external case connect it up to the firewire card and run it off that, all i would need is the Firewire PCI card, or buy the ABit non legacy mobo which has Firewire onboard, thanks for the idea

Firewire cards aren't that much and one can get one of those external cases for 50 quid or so...

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » Fri May 24, 2002 7:12 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
Drive, do you mean CD or Hard?

Both. Hard disks now use the ATA133 standard and CD drives are now using ATA66.

The biggest problem I had with buffer underruns is trying to copy files on the same IDE channel, either from another CD drive or hard disk. That's one of the things I love about onboard RAID - 4 IDE channels for a toal of 8 IDE devices!

I think the type of CD you're using to write to also impacts on the success rate. I've had no end of trouble with cheap CD-R discs, so I only use Imation, Sony or Verbatim now.

I wonder where Mr Flibble rests on HLD's Geek points?

I think I did rather well there

Well, with it now being 1:30 am here I'll leave you all to it. G'night!

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri May 24, 2002 7:24 am

Originally posted by Mr Flibble
I think I did rather well there

Well, with it now being 1:30 am here I'll leave you all to it. G'night!

LOL

Ah i forgot you had scored in that, well done you!

Have a nice night

Both. Hard disks now use the ATA133 standard and CD drives are now using ATA66.

The amusing thing about that is it used to be HD ATA100 and CD ATA33

So whatever happens if the HD is on the same channel it will run at 66 though?

The biggest problem I had with buffer underruns is trying to copy files on the same IDE channel, either from another CD drive or hard disk.

That is the problem i am having, CD ROM and CD-RW on the same IDE Channel, hence buffer under-run.

I think the type of CD you're using to write to also impacts on the success rate. I've had no end of trouble with cheap CD-R discs, so I only use Imation, Sony or Verbatim now.

I will bear that in mind

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Fri May 24, 2002 7:36 am

You could also try using a slower write speed for cd writes sleep. Unless you're going to have mulitple machines, odds are you'll have two devices per IDE channel.

Concerning external USB hard drives, I would expect that technology to change significantly for the better once USB 2.0 hard disks hit the market.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri May 24, 2002 7:48 am

Originally posted by Ned Flanders
You could also try using a slower write speed for cd writes sleep. Unless you're going to have mulitple machines, odds are you'll have two devices per IDE channel.

Slower speeds, i have tried, however it didn't seem to make that much difference, i will have to fiddle more with settings i feel

I currently have two machines, although the one is usually hung up with stuff on the web when i am at home.

Concerning external USB hard drives, I would expect that technology to change significantly for the better once USB 2.0 hard disks hit the market.

I am inclined to agree, although Firewire technology is stabalised and the price isn't dropping (to my knowledge) so that is a good consideration as an alternative.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Fri May 24, 2002 7:54 am

by sleep
Slower speeds, i have tried, however it didn't seem to make that much difference, i will have to fiddle more with settings i feel I currently have two machines, although the one is usually hung up with stuff on the web when i am at home.

Two questions then

1. Specs of the machine with the writer (if already posted, say so and I'll find out for meself).

2. Embarrasing question perhaps, but you're not writing these files to cd across a network, are you? You'll have much more success if the files being written to cd have their source as the hard disk/cd rom are local.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri May 24, 2002 8:01 am

Originally posted by Ned Flanders
1. Specs of the machine with the writer (if already posted, say so and I'll find out for meself).

Not in Full, so here is the pertinent:

AMD 1200
256MB DDR RAM
32x CD ROM
32x8x4 CD-RW

Need anything else?

2. Embarrasing question perhaps, but you're not writing these files to cd across a network, are you? You'll have much more success if the files being written to cd have their source as the hard disk/cd rom are local.

No

I did try it once for a laugh, but Nero doesn't allow you to do that anyway

CD ROM is local, i never had any problem with any writing from the hard disk.