Just saw STAR WARS II

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Wed May 22, 2002 5:03 pm

Originally posted by Robnark
yes, well, being footloose and fancy free like myself, i don't set particularly high expectations on films, so i didn't mind it. it isn't anywhere near my favourite films of all time, and without a doubt an SFX fest, but i didn't have to pay to see it, and (as my post count testifies) i have nothing to do with my time until september, so anything with yoda in is worth a look

I did a method of disassociation with this film from the others, i did the same with the hype surrounding LoTR and i analysed it from a critical point of view. If one looks at the film on it's own without the mythos surrounding Star Wars it does not rate very highly.

Robnark · Post by **Robnark** » Wed May 22, 2002 5:11 pm

only too true, i'm afraid. ah well, lucky i wasn't expecting much, really

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed May 22, 2002 5:40 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep

I did a method of disassociation with this film from the others, i did the same with the hype surrounding LoTR and i analysed it from a critical point of view. If one looks at the film on it's own without the mythos surrounding Star Wars it does not rate very highly.

Well, that ties back with my comment about SW being a series for a fan base, rather then a film to be awed and loved by all.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Wed May 22, 2002 9:04 pm

Originally posted by Aegis
The way I see SW's these days is more of a series made towards a fan base, rather then a movie thats designed to win awards.

Star Wars never was designed to win awards...

I actually think the recent movies are expected more to appeal to people (and rake in the money) than the original trilogy - nobody expected them to be as big as they were, and now Lucas can produce any old rubbish in the knowledge that it will still mean big bucks. (Take our friend Gaxx for instance - he didn't like it, and yet he's going to see it again...

)

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed May 22, 2002 9:12 pm

Originally posted by Georgi

Star Wars never was designed to win awards...

I actually think the recent movies are expected more to appeal to people (and rake in the money) than the original trilogy - nobody expected them to be as big as they were, and now Lucas can produce any old rubbish in the knowledge that it will still mean big bucks. (Take our friend Gaxx for instance - he didn't like it, and yet he's going to see it again... )

True enough, but also keep in mind that most movies don't have this many sequels(prequels) as Star Wars, whi is obviously done for a reason. While GL wants to avoid making it into a series, he has created a Fan base. The way I see, the money and noteriety is just added bonus and incentive. The real point, IMHO, to the prequels is to satisfy the fanbase surrounding Star Wars.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Wed May 22, 2002 9:21 pm

Originally posted by Aegis
True enough, but also keep in mind that most movies don't have this many sequels(prequels) as Star Wars, whi is obviously done for a reason. While GL wants to avoid making it into a series, he has created a Fan base. The way I see, the money and noteriety is just added bonus and incentive. The real point, IMHO, to the prequels is to satisfy the fanbase surrounding Star Wars.

Shame he didn't make a good job of it (I'll give him midiclorians...

). Good point, aside from wanting to avoid making it into a series - he had the prequels planned out when he was making the original trilogy (although at that time they were pretty much impossible to make, with the SFX that were available), and he has a final trilogy as well... But it is one step up on those movies that just copy the format of a one-off successful movie, since it was designed to be part of a larger story.

Morlock · Post by **Morlock** » Wed May 22, 2002 10:54 pm

Originally posted by Georgi

Star Wars never was designed to win awards...

Usualy that means that it can't win awards, so the producers say it was because it 'wasn't designed to'

I saw an interview with Rick McCullem (The producer of E1-3), in which he said that he expected TPM to win some technical oscars, if nothing else. (The Matrix beat it in all four categories).

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu May 23, 2002 4:55 am

Originally posted by Aegis
Well, that ties back with my comment about SW being a series for a fan base, rather then a film to be awed and loved by all.

Definately. I find that one can ignore the problems with a film (like script changes etc) if there is a certain amount of immersion. There is a certain amount of awe at the scale that it is produced on but i find the postulating far too much to bare.

I have to admit that i am not much of a fan of Star Wars anyway, i think that Empire Strikes Back is without doubt the best, but even that falls short of being a great film. One must also note that George Lucas didn't even direct ESB

People also say that you have to think of when Star Wars was produced, HAH i say, a truly great film is timeless, it doesn't need a real life timeline to prove it's worth, unless of course it is a requirement of the film like Doctor Shivago or Gone with the Wind.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Thu May 23, 2002 5:02 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
People also say that you have to think of when Star Wars was produced, HAH i say, a truly great film is timeless, it doesn't need a real life timeline to prove it's worth.

Personally I find the original movies (non-special editions) are still great to watch even today.

To me Star Wars is a truly great series of films, encapsulating human myth and legend and putting it to an operatic space-age setting. It’s hokey, shallow, and a masterpiece. The music, the sounds, the visuals... it's all one wild head trip with moral at the end.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu May 23, 2002 5:08 am

Originally posted by Kayless

Personally I find the original movies (non-special editions) are still great to watch even today. To me Star Wars is a truly great series of films, encapsulating human myth and legend and putting it to an operatic space-age setting. It’s hokey, shallow, and a masterpiece. The music, the sounds, the visuals... it's all one wild head trip with moral at the end.

This is what interests me about Star Wars, some people just love it...for some reason, i simply don't see it myself

I will willingly concede that the music is fantastic, John Williams is terrific

I watch the fighting in space and i think, "Hey there shouldn't be any sound" and also "when there is an explosion in space it does not travel in a set horizontal or vertical course", i guess i am just picky

LOL @ Moral at the end, i hate stories that have a moral at the end, perhaps that is my problem

Ode to a Grasshopper · Thu May 23, 2002 5:17 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
LOL @ Moral at the end, i hate stories that have a moral at the end, perhaps that is my problem

I hate them too, I like stories where everyone dies and none of the main characters are left alive to learn anything. Like Shakespeare.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu May 23, 2002 5:20 am

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
I hate them too, I like stories where everyone dies and no-one's left alive to learn anything. Like Shakespeare.

I don't have much respect for Shakespear either

I consider that i might just be trying to offend the entire US population, a modicum of them love star wars, i don't, most of them love Shakepeare i don't, the list surely goes on

Robnark · Post by **Robnark** » Thu May 23, 2002 5:22 am

i don't care if they all die or not (although that is a bonus) but as long as they don't learn anything it's a good, good thing.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Thu May 23, 2002 5:31 am

Originally posted by Robnark
i don't care if they all die or not (although that is a bonus) but as long as they don't learn anything it's a good, good thing.

My best friend and I noticed this in English Lit. In all the works of Shakespeare we studied, the protagonist and most of the important characters always die! Every time, Othello, Romeo and Juliet, Macbeth, Hamlet, all the main cast die in the end!

This "Shakespeare phenomenom" is one of the undeniable truths of literature.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Thu May 23, 2002 6:15 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
This is what interests me about Star Wars, some people just love it...for some reason, i simply don't see it myself I will willingly concede that the music is fantastic, John Williams is terrific

John Williams rocks, but so does Ben Burtt (the sound dude). Just think all the work and imagination it took to make Vader's breathe, the hum of the lightsabers, or the scream the TIE-fighters make as they fly by.

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
I watch the fighting in space and i think, "Hey there shouldn't be any sound" and also "when there is an explosion in space it does not travel in a set horizontal or vertical course", i guess i am just picky

I guess you dislike 99.9% of all movies then.

Your point of view reminds of people who dislike animation. They don’t think it’s real enough either. But to me certain films don’t belong trapped in our own pathetic reality.

Tarzan looks much better as a cartoon then a live action human being. And Spider-Man wouldn't be half as fun if he followed the laws of gravity.

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
LOL @ Moral at the end, i hate stories that have a moral at the end, perhaps that is my problem

Ah, there’s the answer. You don’t like Star Wars because you’re immoral.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu May 23, 2002 6:27 am

I guess you dislike 99.9% of all movies then.

Unfortunatley yes, because most movies made are crap, you wouldn't believe the amount of rubbish that hollywood produces. I would have said more like 85%.

Your point of view reminds of people who dislike animation. They don’t think it’s real enough either. But to me certain films don’t belong trapped in our own pathetic reality. Tarzan looks much better as a cartoon then a live action human being. And Spider-Man would be half as fun if he followed the laws of gravity.

I accept these things and even find them entertaining, i love animation, i watch Ghost in the Shell absolutely immersed in the amazing world created

I watch lots of anime (even Return of the Overfiend after 2/3 of a bottle of tequila

) and i don't have a problem with the lack of reality in art. I am alright with the noises in space, but i can not stand the explosion thing, why not make it circular rather than on a straight tangent?

Originally posted by Kayless

Ah, there’s the answer. You don’t like Star Wars because you’re immoral.

LOL

It all becomes clear, the dark side has put a shroud on things

Ode to a Grasshopper · Thu May 23, 2002 6:31 am

Ghost in the Shell...Now there's a movie worth watching.
It was my first ever anime, too. With an introduction like this one, no wonder I love anime so much.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu May 23, 2002 6:33 am

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
Ghost in the Shell...Now there's a movie worth watching.
It was my first ever anime, too. With an introduction like this one, no wonder I love anime so much.

When i say this:

(even Return of the Overfiend after 2/3 of a bottle of tequila )

It is meant as a warning, don't do it, this film is like being on Tequila anyway, then doing tequila at the same time....you get my drift

Ode to a Grasshopper · Thu May 23, 2002 6:37 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
It is meant as a warning, don't do it, this film is like being on Tequila anyway, then doing tequila at the same time....you get my drift

I don't think we've got Return of the Overfiend in Australia anyway

. Lousy country.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Thu May 23, 2002 6:37 am

Star Wars and Spider-Man are movies. They're not the Second Coming, nor should they be the center of your life. But for two and a half hours, you get to escape to the galaxy far, far away.

I try not to overanalyse films. I enjoy them. If they're a little hokey or they get creative with physics, that's okay, because if I want real life, I'll turn on CNN or FOXNews.

Who didn't cheer when Luke blew up the Death Star? E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial made me cry. Psycho scared me (rhymes-with) witless. Field of Dreams reminded me of everything that is good about baseball. The Blues Brothers made me want to buy a fedora and start a band. I didn't swim in the ocean for two years because of Jaws.

That's why I go see movies.

With Star Wars movies, they may not be great cinematic achievements, but they sure are a good time.