school shooting in Germany (no spam)

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 12:07 pm

I just read this on CNN.com. Apparently 17 people were killed and 6 people injured by a gunman in Germany who then killed himself at a school. The story says that the gunman was a recently-expelled student.

Does anyone have more details? I haven't been home to check this out on the news; I just have internet news services (and CNN is now charging to view their streaming video; I won't pay).

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 12:10 pm

Tragic!

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200204 ... OTJG0.html

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 8:28 pm

Horrible

What disturbes me the most with the schol shootings that have occured both in Europe and the US, is that the adult world and society in general seems to neglect the signs that are there if you look, and also that no efficient, long term solutions are produced as a result of thoses tragic events.

When kids kill, rape and torture other people, most people feel even more upset than when it happens between adults. Still, violence among kids is very common - more common than between adults. Of course school killings are an expression of general problems in a society, but I think part of the problem is adults' erranous conception that children are less prone to violence and adult's failure to recognise serious problems in children, who often express problems in other ways than adults do.

VoodooDali · Post by **VoodooDali** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 8:36 pm

Terrible. I don't see how they'll be able to resume classes there--with so many teachers killed.

I hope they don't try to blame computer games for this one...

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 12:59 am

oh they will, they will blame computer games, tv, and music, and also whatever this kid had they'll blame, for example, if his parents were divorced they'll say how evil divorce is. i hate all of that.

Geckopat · Post by **Geckopat** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 1:02 am

oh they will, they will blame computer games, tv, and music, and also whatever this kid had they'll blame, for example, if his parents were divorced they'll say how evil divorce is. i hate all of that.

yeah i totally agree.....
they will always push the blame on the media 1st.
so that @ least they is some1 to blame for.
happens all the time.

TheDude · Post by **TheDude** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 3:56 am

it i think it is very horrible.
but what i really hate is what u hear on the news, things like:
- you thought this sort of things would only happen in america.
- we have to blame all the violent music and PC-Games.
- or children are far to much violent because of the television.

i realy hate that sort of 'conclusions' those students who commited such a crime are just sick!! totaly F**KED *P.!

(sorry for the langauge, but it just makes me furious)

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 5:38 am

Originally posted by TheDude
- you thought this sort of things would only happen in america.
- we have to blame all the violent music and PC-Games.
- or children are far to much violent because of the television.

Over the last 20 years or so, there have been about 15 school shootings commited by students in the US, only 2 including this one I think in Europe and 1 in Asia. That's probably why many people view this as "typical" to America.

Western society has always had a strong tendency to attribute negative events to recent inventions - TV, movies and computer games are currently in focus, but looking back in history, certain books and other certain phenomena has been targeted as reasons for unacceptable behaviour. Also things like democracy, common literacy and common right to vote have been targeted as reasons for decay in society. We should also remember that it suits politicans as well as many individuals to blame factors outside your own range of responsibiliy - it's comfortable and a way of getting rid of having to act on the problem.

There will always be distrubed people in every society, in every time. However, I still think any soceity should take responsibility to prevent things like from occuring. A disturbed individual can express his/her illness in many ways - killing a lot of other people is just one possibility. In most cases, I'm convinced such tragedies could be avioded by earlier intervention (or any intervention at all). All school shootings I am familiar with, have just been the end point of a long road. It's not that a normal, healthy person suddenly starts shooting people.

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 8:40 am

Condolences

I would like to express my sympathies for any who may be directly or indirectly affected by this event.

I would not care to speculate as to "reasons" for such behavior, I will leave that to the media.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 10:51 am

I thought Germany had really good gun control. How did he get the gun?
Sorry if its been posted before.

Trym · Post by **Trym** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 11:55 am

I thought Germany had really good gun control. How did he get the gun?

He was a member of a sports marksmen club. You can get gun permits compartively easy by joining one. His handgun was thus probably a legal firearm, but I'm not sure about the pumpgun.

crazymancometh · Post by **crazymancometh** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 2:02 pm

Well I just pray that like herre in America German kids don't become followers wanting to be in news like the ones who commited this tradgedy..It seems in america they come in spurts...like copycat killers...My condolences to the Germany people.

VoodooDali · Post by **VoodooDali** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 9:47 am

I just saw on CNN that the Associated Press said that the kid who shot all those people "enjoyed violent computer games." Didn't I tell you they were going to blame computer games?

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 9:55 am

Apparently, there is also a "strong connection with Slipknot being investigated" because the guy had a CD of theirs with lyrics about killing teachers in it. They've always got to blame someone other than the person himself, his parents or his upbringing in general...

However my condolences go to everyone involved.

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 10:58 am

@VoodooDali: Yes, the entire issue is becoming very politicized in Germany right now. If any of you read German, you can check out this link to Spiegel magazine. As I said, I have no wish to turn this into a debate about what makes kids violent, perhaps in another thread ...

The other reason I posted was: it just happend again. Two dead in Bosnia. Another 17 year old murder/suicide in a school.

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 11:10 am

Originally posted by der Moench

The other reason I posted was: it just happend again. Two dead in Bosnia. Another 17 year old murder/suicide in a school.

It seems that tragedies happen all the time now.

Did the same things happen 20 yrs ago?

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 1:12 pm

Re computer games and music, it's the usual mix up between causality and correlation. That things occur at the same time (ie liking of violent computer games, liking of music with violent lyrics and being a murderer) says nothing about what caused what. More likely, a disturbed person who has the drive to kill lots of other people, is prone to be interested in violence in general.

Originally posted by der Moench
@VoodooDali: Yes, the entire issue is becoming very politicized in Germany right now. If any of you read German, you can check out this link to Spiegel magazine. As I said, I have no wish to turn this into a debate about what makes kids violent, perhaps in another thread ...

The other reason I posted was: it just happend again. Two dead in Bosnia. Another 17 year old murder/suicide in a school.

That's horrible

My condolances to everybody who are affected by those two tragedies

My German is at a very basic level, @Monk, would you like to explain briefly in what way the issue is becoming politicised in Germany?

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:42 pm

@CE: Well, it is election-time in Germany, so just about anything is going to get made political. In this case, the left-leaning SPD is "in power," and some of their challengers from the right (CDU/CSU) are intimating that they would do more to combat this sort of problem through abolition of violent video, music, games, etc.

The article talks mostly about a CSU member named Beckstein, but a higher member of the CDU, Stoiber, has made similar comments.

Gun control issues are popping up around this too. Germany has seen a large influx of illegal weapons from the old east bloc nations. Though, as we know, the young man who instigated this tragedy used two legally owned weapons.

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 6:55 am

Uebersetzung

@CE:[url=http://www.faz.com/IN/INtemplates/eFAZ/docmain.asp?rub={B1311FCC-FBFB-11D2-B228-00105A9CAF88}&doc={AD36931C-4B37-4BBD-8F13-99C3E5368BA1}]Here[/url] is an article in English which discusses the exact same things as the other (German) one.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 12:16 pm

@Monk: Thanks a lot for the translation and the link.

This article, as well as others I've read, discusses the issue of higher restrictions for legal weapons. Have you heard what kind of toughening of the gun control laws that are discussed?