american dream

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 6:25 pm

Anyone see the footie last night?

i agree, you grab weasel, i'll grab t'laniya

Why do you need to grab T'L....I never said she was a threat?...or maybe do not answer that. There are certain things a boy should not know. PS are you one of those creepy pervs who is actualy on here all the time but has Gb configured so that noone else can tell? rghhh... EDIT: Abort Abort! T'L has gotten her hands on some of that unseeable ink. I'm not entirely sure she knows what she's doing with it, but it looks grim...

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 6:33 pm

I'm thinking of leaving work early today.

T'lainya - Well, if I answered that publicly, you'd have to delete my comment, invisible or not. Suffice to say that it would be in an area that is curvy, resilient and responsive. Or, alternatively, wherever you'd like.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 6:36 pm

Originally posted by C Elegans
what is the specific American thing in the American dream? The factors mentioned here would be similar or in some regards perhaps better, in many other rich, industrialised countries in the western world.

I think that you have to consider the source of the phrase "American Dream". The term was coined in 1931 when few people were themselves realising the American Dream (being stuck in the midst of a worldwide depression), but for about 60 years previous, people had been coming to America to make a better life for themselves.

Many European nations, even the modern industrial nations, were experiencing negative growth because such a large numbers of people were emigrating to the United States. Although now many people are emigrating to Europe (ie-the large number of Turks living in Germany) to pursue a better life than in their native countries, the benchmark is still the United States.

Why do you think so many people flee Cuba in rubber rafts? Or why do they pay tens of thousands of dollars to be illegally smuggled into the US just to end up as slave labour or prostitutes? Because the image of America abroad is still as the land of opportunity, and they figure that whatever hell they must endure to get here must be worth it for the opportunity that is offered.

Some times, this dream is one big chimera that lures people into making the trip, but they die in the journey or spend their lives as indentured labourers. However, for the vast majority of immigrants, life in the United States is far better than life in Uganda, Laos or [insert destitute Third World country here] where starvation and civil war are omnipresent, even if the first job one gets is working in a convenience store or as a janitor doing menial tasks second- and third-generation Americans are too good for.

The dream may be alive in many other countries, but it is still the beacon of the Statue of Liberty that calls people here, along with the idea that in America, with a little bit of hard work, anyone can make for themself the life they desire.

EDIT: Sorry to bring this thread back on track, but C Elegans asked

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 6:39 pm

I hate marmite.
Resilient? Resilient to what? I don't like the way this thread is going....When conversation turns away from Puffins and social/political issues related thereto I find myself helpless...like that awful nighmare, where the puffins all abandon you and you're left to fend for yourself, in the big, cold world....I'm going to bed. G'night all!

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 6:40 pm

HEY DAVE!

STOP SPAMMING UP OUR THREAD!

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 6:48 pm

Sorry, Witch King

Would you like to buy a monkey?

I'm just trying to get my post count over 1,000 before the end of the week. In the future, I'll refrain from interjecting socio-political commentary on a spam-hijacked thread. It won't happen again.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 7:19 pm

i couldn't agree more with our friend high lord dave. but i also agree with whoever it was that said how self centered and immoral americans are. not meaning to offend anyone, but i think that america is full of snobish rich people that only care about money. and yes, i do live in america.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 7:19 pm

and stop spamming in my thread!

VoodooDali · Post by **VoodooDali** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 7:27 pm

Originally posted by HighLordDave

I think that you have to consider the source of the phrase "American Dream". The term was coined in 1931 when few people were themselves realising the American Dream (being stuck in the midst of a worldwide depression), but for about 60 years previous, people had been coming to America to make a better life for themselves.

Many European nations, even the modern industrial nations, were experiencing negative growth because such a large numbers of people were emigrating to the United States. Although now many people are emigrating to Europe (ie-the large number of Turks living in Germany) to pursue a better life than in their native countries, the benchmark is still the United States.

Why do you think so many people flee Cuba in rubber rafts? Or why do they pay tens of thousands of dollars to be illegally smuggled into the US just to end up as slave labour or prostitutes? Because the image of America abroad is still as the land of opportunity, and they figure that whatever hell they must endure to get here must be worth it for the opportunity that is offered.

Some times, this dream is one big chimera that lures people into making the trip, but they die in the journey or spend their lives as indentured labourers. However, for the vast majority of immigrants, life in the United States is far better than life in Uganda, Laos or [insert destitute Third World country here] where starvation and civil war are omnipresent, even if the first job one gets is working in a convenience store or as a janitor doing menial tasks second- and third-generation Americans are too good for.

The dream may be alive in many other countries, but it is still the beacon of the Statue of Liberty that calls people here, along with the idea that in America, with a little bit of hard work, anyone can make for themself the life they desire.

EDIT: Sorry to bring this thread back on track, but C Elegans asked

I agree and disagree with you HLD.

Last time I was in Morocco, people were continually approaching us to talk about America because the US was holding a visa lottery. A lot of them had very unrealistic ideas about the standard of living in the USA. They only know what they see on TV, and American TV shows show all families with their own spacious home, 2 cars, tv's, health insurance, etc. I don't have any of these things, and I'm definitely not poor. I was staying in this little beach town. No one had a lot of money, but they also didn't have to work 80 hours a week like most New Yorkers just to make rent. The scenery was idyllic. I tried to talk everyone I met out of coming here. Some third world people live in dire conditions, but not all of them have it that bad. Owning a TV, car, etc is not the be-all and end-all of a good life. I certainly felt that having a crappy job in a beach town in Morocco beat the heck out of the life I knew they would have in NYC. Crammed into a tiny apt with a zillion other people, a sweat-shop job, never getting to see a tree, no free time, etc. I don't think that's what they come to the USA for. It's what they end up with.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 7:30 pm

ya, they should come to L.A. and get a job on the strawberry feilds, i did that last summer, i learned a lot of spanish.