lORD OF THE RINGS QUESTION

slacker2 · Post by **slacker2** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 6:14 pm

I am by no means a Tolkein expert so I thought I would pose this question cause so many people know so much. I read the books a long time ago so I am not sure if it is covered in the book. When the fellowship decides to enter Moria, Gimili keeps saying how his cousin will give them a great welcome. Now if i remember correctly from the movie Gandalf hints at the fact that he knows about some great evil in moria (implying he knows about the Balrog). So my question is this is. One the one hand Gimli the dwarf has no idea that Moria has been destroyed by orcs but yet Gandalf seems to know. How can this be? This seemed very perplexing to me? Could someone explain please. Thanks in advance. ANd for whats it worth I thought the movie was very well done.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 7:40 pm

Originally posted by slacker2
I am by no means a Tolkein expert so I thought I would pose this question cause so many people know so much. I read the books a long time ago so I am not sure if it is covered in the book. When the fellowship decides to enter Moria, Gimili keeps saying how his cousin will give them a great welcome. Now if i remember correctly from the movie Gandalf hints at the fact that he knows about some great evil in moria (implying he knows about the Balrog). So my question is this is. One the one hand Gimli the dwarf has no idea that Moria has been destroyed by orcs but yet Gandalf seems to know. How can this be? This seemed very perplexing to me? Could someone explain please. Thanks in advance. ANd for whats it worth I thought the movie was very well done.

Well, Gandalf is just all knowing. If there was a newspaper in those lands, he probably read it everyday.

slacker2 · Post by **slacker2** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:13 pm

Wow thanks for the insight. I couldn't have possibly come up with something like that. Very Intuitive. Now if anyone else has an idea feel free to share it.

McBane · Post by **McBane** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:21 pm

I do not know if this is needed but..
SPOILER
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In the book, Gimli wants to go to Moria to find out what happened to his cousin, as they had not heard from him in a long time. As for the movie, (IIRC) it is hard to tell how Gandalf knows, but if you pay attention to Saruman's ramblings after he creates the snowstorm, he alludes to the fact that Gandalf is afraid of what is below the mountain. So, maybe the Wizards Council knew of the balrog.

I also remember, (not sure book or movie) that Gandalf talks of the original dwarves digging too deep, and disturbing some evil. Gandalf may have been around when that happened.

Anyway, I don't know if that helped, perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can explain better.

BTW, Welcome to SYM

T'lainya · Post by **T'lainya** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:36 pm

In the book Gandalf only knew that something evil had lurked in Moria. When the balrog appears he says"A balrog. Now I understand.What an evil fortune and I am already weary." He suspected that something had happened to Balin and the others who tried to reclaim Moria, but didn't know for certain I think. I think he was also expecting an attack in some form and was hoping the dwarves were holed up somewhere and not slaughtered.
@ Aegis, please wait until a serious question has been answered before spamming it.

slacker2 · Post by **slacker2** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:37 pm

Yup that that makes sense. Thanks for help. And as for the dwarves digging to deep I know that was in the movie, not sure about the book.

T'lainya · Post by **T'lainya** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:40 pm

Originally posted by slacker2
Yup that that makes sense. Thanks for help. And as for the dwarves digging to deep I know that was in the movie, not sure about the book.

It was in the book and ended up a discussion between Gimli and Legolas. Legolas said they dug too deeply and awoke a great evil and Gimli replied the dwarves did not create the evil. Legolas replied that was true, but evil came amyway

*feeling like a LoTR geek*

slacker2 · Post by **slacker2** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:45 pm

Not a problem. At least my question is getting answered. Wish i was a LoTR "geek" then i wouldn't have to ask stupid questions.

Follow up question to your answer. I assume this coversation was after they entered moria and encountered the balrog.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:46 pm

Originally posted by T'lainya
*feeling like a LoTR geek*

Converted another one!

T'lainya · Post by **T'lainya** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:48 pm

You assume correctly

It was after they'd gotten out of the mines completely and were on the borders of Lothlorien

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 10:58 pm

In the book, Aragorn and Gandalf were debating about which course to choose. Gandalf chooses to go to Moria, while Aragorn wants to continue on the mountain. Gandalf apparently passed through Moria once. My guess is that Gandalf knew something about how the dwarves delved too deep and woke an ancient evil. My other guess is that Gandalf passed through Moria on his way to pursue Sauron in Mirkwood. This is alluded in the Hobbit.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 12:44 am

On a semi-related note, the Grey Havens has a nice detailed F.A.Q. on some interesting and obscure LotR question. Also, the Fellowship of Ring movie is now featuring a four minute preview trailer for the Two Towers after the end of the credits (a gift to fans for repeat viewings). Check it out!

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 5:29 am

I didn't think the movie dealt with this particularly well... they definitely implied that Gandalf knew about the balrog beforehand, so why he didn't explain to Gimli about Moria is anyone's guess... Plus if I were Frodo, I would have asked for more detailed information before deciding whether to go through the mines or via the Gap of Rohan

Originally posted by Kayless
Also, the Fellowship of Ring movie is now featuring a four minute preview trailer for the Two Towers after the end of the credits (a gift to fans for repeat viewings). Check it out!

I heard about this, but I doubt it will be showing over here

On a related note, the DVD's out August 6th and will contain a 10-minute preview of Two Towers. The special extended edition DVD, with 30 mins extra footage, isn't out until November though.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 9:01 am

Originally posted by slacker2
I am by no means a Tolkein expert so I thought I would pose this question cause so many people know so much. I read the books a long time ago so I am not sure if it is covered in the book. When the fellowship decides to enter Moria, Gimili keeps saying how his cousin will give them a great welcome. Now if i remember correctly from the movie Gandalf hints at the fact that he knows about some great evil in moria (implying he knows about the Balrog). So my question is this is. One the one hand Gimli the dwarf has no idea that Moria has been destroyed by orcs but yet Gandalf seems to know. How can this be? This seemed very perplexing to me? Could someone explain please. Thanks in advance. ANd for whats it worth I thought the movie was very well done.

Gandalf suspected a great evil existed beneath Moria (Durin's Bane), but he didn't know exactly what it was. Had known it was a Balrog, I think he would have circumvented the Misty Mountains and led the Fellowship south to the Gap of Rohan and risked running into Saruman's Uruk-hai.

After all, the "cruel" and malevolent spirit of Caradhras was that of the Balrogs', who had slumbered beneath the mountain since the defeat of Morgoth, the first Dark Lord, and the destruction of Thangorodrim, and by his presence alone turned it evil.

Perhaps the snowstorm near the summit was a deliberate attempt on the part of the mountain to shepherd Gandalf and Company into the Balrog's clutches (the storm is attributed to Saruman in the film, but that's not in the book).

The Balrog most likely knew or felt the Ring of Power was borne by one of the Company . Had he succeeded in crossing the Bridge of Khazad-dum, killing Frodo, and obtaining the One Ring (he almost did), he would have become an even greater, more dangerous Dark Lord than either Sauron or Saruman could hope to be. Moria would become the new Mordor. I think this is the last thing in the world Gandalf wanted to see, or help bring about.

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 12:57 pm

There are too many unanswered questions in the book. We can only speculate.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 7:57 pm

Originally posted by Georgi
I heard about this, but I doubt it will be showing over here On a related note, the DVD's out August 6th and will contain a 10-minute preview of Two Towers. The special extended edition DVD, with 30 mins extra footage, isn't out until November though.

Yep. I'll get LotR on VHS when it comes out on August 6th. I'm waiting until November 12th to get the DVD though (can't wait for that 30 extra minutes!

)

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 8:58 pm

Originally posted by Kayless
Yep. I'll get LotR on VHS when it comes out on August 6th. I'm waiting until November 12th to get the DVD though (can't wait for that 30 extra minutes!

The strange thing is, they say it will probably be rated R - so what have they added? More violence? I'd say the action side was the part that really doesn't need adding to...

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 9:10 pm

Stimmt!

Hey, Georgi! I agree: my impression of Fellowship was that they focused too much on fighting, and knowing that Two Towers (the book) has more fighting to start with, I fear that the movie will be a lot of gore. Maybe they will be able to pull it off, but I am a bit worried.

Ack! Almost 500!

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 3:07 am

Originally posted by Georgi
The strange thing is, they say it will probably be rated R - so what have they added? More violence? I'd say the action side was the part that really doesn't need adding to...

Okay, this may be considered spoilerish, but here it goes: The deleted scenes include Frodo pimp slapping Samwise for burning his food, a striptease by Arwen for Aragorn before the Fellowship leaves Rivendale, homosexual subtext between the Nazgul, and Gimli saying the F-word about six or seven times.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 4:30 am

Originally posted by Kayless
homosexual subtext between the Nazgul,

I don't remember that from the book.