Do you like Comics ?

Beldin · Post by **Beldin** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 6:45 am

Do you like cartoons, comic strips or simply some characters from comics ? Tell us the "what, who and why's (- or why not's) " !

AND - Could Comics like the Peanuts (just as an example) qualify as "literature" in the broadest sense ?

No worries,

Beldin

BTW - This thread has been spawned in another discussion (see - here- for reference) and since there has been an argument about SYM being "ready" for a discussion on comic characters you're free to comment on that too.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 7:09 am

Do you mean comic strips such as "Doonesbury", "Peanuts" and "Dilbert" or comic books like "Batman", "X-Men" and "Spawn"?

I think that both qualify as "literature" becuase they tell a story. Lit snobs will say no because they comic strips are illustrated and have a "kiddie" element. However, many people consider political cartoons to be literature, and some comic strips often take the same role as a political cartoon, only in three or four panels. The best examples are "Doonesbury" and "Bloom County" (the greatest comic strip ever drawn).

In addition, the writing (heiroglyphics, the chinese alphabet, etc.) in many cultures is based on pictures, and we consider that literature, so why shouldn't comics?

My favourite comic strips are the now-defunct "Bloom County" (it's the only strip that consistently was funny, intelligent and just plain silly), "For Better or For Worse" (every day people with everyday problems and simple solutions), "Dilbert" (I work in a cubicle) and "Foxtrot" (just plain fun).

My least favourte are "Family Circus" (antiquated familial structure, no character growth over the years) and "Cathy" (three jokes recycled over and over and over and over).

Beldin · Post by **Beldin** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 7:12 am

Originally posted by HighLordDave
Do you mean comic strips such as "Doonesbury", "Peanuts" and "Dilbert" or comic books like "Batman", "X-Men" and "Spawn"?
?

Whatever you like ! The thread is completely open to all versions of comics/cartoons. - Even WEBCOMICS like "User Friendly", "Sluggy Freelance", "Bruno the Bandit" or "GPF" !

No worries,

Beldin

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 7:42 am

I loved The Far Side. Half the time the jokes were just plain bizzare, but I’ve never laughed harder on a comic then I have reading the best Far Side strips. Sinfest is a web comic I’m partial to (and I've even started my own web comic based on Baldur’s Gate)

Leonardo · Post by **Leonardo** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 7:51 am

I think that both qualify as "literature" becuase they tell a story. Lit snobs will say no because they comic strips are illustrated and have a "kiddie" element.

Obviously not aplied to anything by Grant Morrison, Alan Moore, Garth Ennis, Neil Gaiman, Peter Milligan, Warren Ellis...
I am a big comic fan.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Wed Mar 20, 2002 7:54 am

I love Manga, but prefer the videos. My friends and I have been known to make our own comics from time to time, very few of which make sense the next morning.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 10:34 am

8-bit theathre is awesome. I'm also patial to spawn comics, and the X-men comics where they finally get rid of their pansy like attitudes towards violence.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 10:45 am

Originally posted by HighLordDave
However, many people consider political cartoons to be literature,

some have even won the Pulitzer as I recall...

Originally posted by HighLordDave
My favourite comic strips are the now-defunct "Bloom County" (it's the only strip that consistently was funny, intelligent and just plain silly), "For Better or For Worse" (every day people with everyday problems and simple solutions), "Dilbert" (I work in a cubicle) and "Foxtrot" (just plain fun).

My least favourte are "Family Circus" (antiquated familial structure, no character growth over the years) and "Cathy" (three jokes recycled over and over and over and over).

I agree with this list, but would add Calvin and Hobbes as one of the best. The fact that Dilbert is resonating with me more and more as my company develops its corporate culture scares the heck outta me.

I once shook Burke Breathed's hand....

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 11:10 am

I used the power of the write-in ballot in 1996 to place my vote for Bill the Cat for president and Opus for veep.

And yes, "Calvin and Hobbes" should have been on my list; I stopped reading it a while back when I quit subscribing to a newspaper, but it is a very intelligent and funny strip.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 11:11 am

Originally posted by Gwalchmai

I agree with this list, but would add Calvin and Hobbes as one of the best. The fact that Dilbert is resonating with me more and more as my company develops its corporate culture scares the heck outta me.

I once shook Burke Breathed's hand....

Calvin and Hobbes is one of the best comics I ever read. It's a shame Waterson decided to stop making new ones.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 11:14 am

Originally posted by Aegis
Calvin and Hobbes is one of the best comics I ever read. It's a shame Waterson decided to stop making new ones.

Everyone gets burnout and I'm sure that Waterson felt the need to do something else with his time. "Bloom County" was past due for retirement and should have been cancelled about two years before Breathed finally quit. I think a lot of guys would rather go out on top than spend two or three years supplying readers with crap.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 11:16 am

Originally posted by HighLordDave

Everyone gets burnout and I'm sure that Waterson felt the need to do something else with his time. "Bloom County" was past due for retirement and should have been cancelled about two years before Breathed finally quit. I think a lot of guys would rather go out on top than spend two or three years supplying readers with crap.

Well, that is a good point, but still, it was Calvin and Hobbes!

Moleman · Post by **Moleman** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 12:18 pm

First an answer to your second question; definetily comics quolify as literature. Sure, there's crappy comics but then there are also really sophisticated, clever, emotional and brilliant comics. Like in every artform, there are portions of good and bad.

But comics have been referred as "poor man's movies" and I agree. Their methods are closer to movies than books.

Comics that I like:

Judge Dredd - really great humour

Milo Manara - eh, beautifully drawn comics, yet somewhat twisted at times and at worse their plot is like from a cheap porno movie

Some special edition Batman albums are great; Batman vs. Predator and Judgement at Gotham City just to name few

Neil Gaiman's Sandman - this is Art with capital letter

edit: Oh yeh, The Far Side is great too...

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:42 pm

Originally posted by Aegis
Calvin and Hobbes is one of the best comics I ever read. It's a shame Waterson decided to stop making new ones.

Here, here! IMHO, it's the best.

IIRC, he stopped making them after 10 years of brutel fights with his sydicate. They wanted him to licence the comic (t-shirts, calenders, mugs, possibly TV cartoons), and he would have made millions upon millions of $, but he refused. A five-year legal fight insued, and eventually he won. He is completely against licencing because it "cheapens" the ideas of the strip, etc. Bravo to him for that!

Farside, Dilbert, Zits, and Doonesberry are really funny, too.

josh · Post by **josh** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 5:41 pm

Originally posted by Gwalchmai
I agree with this list, but would add Calvin and Hobbes as one of the best.

Originally posted by Aegis
Calvin and Hobbes is one of the best comics I ever read. It's a shame Waterson decided to stop making new ones.

I agree. Calvin and Hobbes is the best.

@ Aegis: You just ruined my day. I didn't know Watterson stopped making them

I also like Dilbert and The Far Side. Another to add to the list: Insanity Streak.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 6:36 pm

@ Beldin

You didn't take my comments seriously did you?

As for comics, well Calvin and Hobbes and Dilbert I find to be enjoyable. Actually they rock

EDIT- Here is a little favourite of mine, that I saw recently

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 9:22 pm

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
I love Manga, but prefer the videos. My friends and I have been known to make our own comics from time to time, very few of which make sense the next morning.

I also love manga, such as Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon, Shoujo Kakumei Utena, Aa! Megami-sama!, and Gunnm(my favorite, along with BSSM, currently). Every month I buy Animerica Extra, a magezine that runs one issue from each of 6 manga every month. AE is currently running Chicago, Marionette Generation, Video Girl Ai, Fushigi Yugi, Shoujo Kakumei Utena, and Steam Detectives.

Other comics I like are Excalibur, X-Men, Witchblade, various Marvel Comics, and Dilbert.

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 10:24 pm

I like Far side, Hagar the Horrible, and the ones you find in playboy

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 10:32 pm

Make mine Xmen...

I have always loved the X-Men

waaaaayyyyy back when they were Cyclops, Phoenix, Storm, Wolverine, Colossus, Shadowcat and Nightcrawler.

I love the way the story revolve around human relationships rather than just hack and slash and saving-the-world thingies.

My fave is the "fast-ball special" between Colossus and Wolverine.

VoodooDali · Post by **VoodooDali** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 11:29 pm

The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers
Zippy the Pinhead
Ren & Stimpy
Zap