Support Group for Cultural abusers

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 2:56 pm

No, im not talking about poetry.

What i have in mind is the guidlines we use to communicate and interact with each other. Ettiquette, Languages, Traditions and such stuff. A certain amount of culture is ofcourse needed to communicate efficiently but many parts of it seems to be created for other reasons. Im not sure about what those reasons are but the culture that springs from them does cause much comformity and suffering. Especially so when those guidlines are interpreted as rules by a certain group. I think most of us probably use culture in harmfull ways when we expect people to dress up in certain ways, lie on certain occasions, offer presents at certain moments and so on.

So I invite everyone that thinks they are to narrow minded to come here and try to break some patterns we force ourselfes into. Since i started the thread I guess I will go first.

Hello, my name is Dottie and Im a cultural abuser. I have consumed alcohol only beacause its what you are expected to do at partys. I have dressed according to whats dictated and have also been cought wearing a tie or even tails at times.

I am guilty of many other kinds of abuse but cant recite them all here so i let someone else have a go.

CM · Post by CM » Wed Mar 06, 2002 3:03 pm

Sign me up!!!

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 3:05 pm

Originally posted by CM
Sign me up!!!

Nice to have you here.

Care to share your experiences with the rest of us?

CM · Post by CM » Wed Mar 06, 2002 3:09 pm

Well firstly i found out that you can't wear white woolen socks with a suit and good shoes.
For some reason that is not being cultured.
Go figure!

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 3:13 pm

I'm not sure what you refer to Dot, do you mean we should post occations when we've been cultural abusers by behaving non-conformistic or conformistic but for the "not accepted" reasons?

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 3:17 pm

I mean the conformistic behaviour that is forced upon us by narrow minded suroundings and that we in submitting to this reinforce those suroundings.

sorry for being unclear.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 3:48 pm

Ok, I see what you mean. Well, there are numerous such occations in everybody's daily life - according to a study I read a while ago, people lie in average 3 times day. I lie a lot too, not to people I know well but I can just think of the many times I've been to a really boring party and the host/hostess later asked me: "Did you have a good time last Saturday?" and if I don't know the person well, I feel obliged to answer "Yes, I was just a bit tired" out of politeness instead of saying "No, I really regret coming since all your friends seemed to be uniteresting morons." Not that I wish to hurt people, but it's still a lie and I don't like lying but I don't like being rude either.

Hm, dress code and such are pretty loose in Sweden, my family used to be rather stiff when I grew up but happily, they have changed

Personally, I like to dress up for parties as a courtesy to the people having the party, it's a way to show that you appreciate their efforts, by making an effort yourself. It doesn't bother me, it's something I like to do.

For job occations, I don't dress up other than at large international meetings, and then it's for the same reasons as above. To say that the dress code at my job is relaxed is an understatement - at the last meeting I had with people from the outside, my prof turned up in a training sweater and jeans. That's the kind of clothes he usually wear.

Drinking alcohol, I don't drink alcohol and when I was a teenager I sometimes pretended to drink a little in order not to seem "ungrateful" when offered. Then I realised that it's much more rude to let people waste their good wine on me, so I stopped watering my friends flowers with wine

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 3:55 pm

Hmm...I tend to go against what's "culturally accepted" for the area I'm in.

Examples:

I wear miniskirts all the time, even to church. In the churches I usually attend, that's generally looked down upon.

In 5th Grade, I started wearing sandles to school, which went against the dress code.

The School Principle: You've almost got nothing on from the waist down!
Me: Your point?

I still don't know how I managed to get away with it, but I did.

I dress the same way whether going to a casual event or a formal event.

Instead of lying when something is unsatisfactory at a party or somesuch, I just tell the truth in a way that sounds flattering.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 4:01 pm

@CE: The problem with lying to save someones feelings is that finally you end up at the point where compliments doesnt mean anything.

I dont have so much against letting your clothing reflect that the occasion is special as letting your clothing reflect that the occasion is special in a certain way.

@SS: you seem rather healthy, though i dont think its any difference between lying to people and talk to them in a way they cant interpret correctly.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 4:13 pm

@SS: If you like miniskirts and feel comfortable wearing them, I think you should wear then regardless of whether you go to church or school or other places. Your faith or your learning abilities are certainly not in your clothes

@Dot: Yes, I do think we live in a culture where compliments don't mean anything except between people who already know each other. I try to avoid giving compliments if I don't mean them, I somebody asks me "How do I look in this suit" I won't say "horrible" unless I know the person well, but I will say "I think a darker/slimmer/etc one would suit you better."

However, I find it awfully difficult to tell people I don't know that I had the bore of my life at their parties, that's why I end up saying things like "I was tired", trying to attribute the fact that it was boring to myself instead of them and their friends.

If I discuss more important things than how people look or their parties, I however does not lie even to save someones feelings. Relationships, learning situations, professional situations - not.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 1:01 pm

It is also difficult to know if the people you lie/not lie to value the same things as you do, perhaps they werent asking a serious question but did only atempt to make conversation. In that case it would be rather cruel to be brutally honest.

To expand about dress codes and ideal of beatuy they are imo rather strict. For example it is wery unusual to se males in dresses, or woman with large muscles or much facial hair.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 1:36 pm

Originally posted by Dottie
It is also difficult to know if the people you lie/not lie to value the same things as you do, perhaps they werent asking a serious question but did only atempt to make conversation. In that case it would be rather cruel to be brutally honest.

Right, so brutal honesty is only for people I know quite well (and sometimes if I'm tired, I'm not known for my grace and diplomacy

)

Seriously though, I do think straightforward honesty is not always apt, but I personally prefer situations when you have the freedom both to recieve and act in that way.

To expand about dress codes and ideal of beatuy they are imo rather strict. For example it is wery unusual to se males in dresses, or woman with large muscles or much facial hair.

Oh, you mean between gender and cultures. Yes, in that case I do agree, I thought you meant dress code in different situations. I think Swedes dress very informal compared to all other countries I've been to, but the line between gender and the beauty ideals are the same here as in the rest of the Western world I would think.
The only country I've even been to where cross dressing between gender is highly accepted is Thailand, and I'm not sure it's for the right reasons there since "ladyboys" beauty contests, prostition etc is all to often just a way out of poverty.

Trousers have become totally accepted for women to wear in most of the Western world, so why haven't dresses or skirts become fashionable or at least acceptable for men other than in underground subcultures?