Meat

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:17 am

Do you like to eat it? I guess you think its ok then. But can you justify it? What makes it right to lock up innocent creatures and then kill them?

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:25 am

I'm aware that what I'm eating has come from a living animal, as are all people of course. But that doesn't stop me from going to McDonalds etc.

As for the creatures themselves. They tend to be put down humanely. Or so we are told

And for the right to kill and eat animals. IMO we are placed at the end of the food chain. And as a result, it's primely human instincts, to kill for our food. We are after all omnivores.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 5:26 am

It brings about an interesting question, what is one supposed to do with these animals, if we were all to stop eating/killing animals then the whole planet would become over-run, how would we cope then? (exaggerating a little perhaps

)

Plus the conditions for most animals are fairly decent, if we stopped culling their numbers then they would live in squalor and horrible conditions, the question becomes would we want animals to live 5 years in contentment or 10 years in squalor?

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 7:36 am

Originally posted by Tamerlane

And for the right to kill and eat animals. IMO we are placed at the end of the food chain. And as a result, it's primely human instincts, to kill for our food. We are after all omnivores.

So if understand your principle correctly it is OK for beings at the top of a food chain to eat all those lover on the food chain. Is that what you are saying?

But human cannibals are higher on the food chain than those that don't eat other humans so therefore it is not wrong for humans to eat each other?

In fact it doesn't have to be humans of course - anything that eat humans is within what is morally acceptable according to what you are saying.

I think we need another justification for keeping animals locked up in cages out of their natural habitat and then eating them.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 8:08 am

A touchy subject for some people...

My opinions on this is that as a species, we have evolved to a greater extenf than others, we can adapt more to our surroundings and therefore we take more advantage of it.

The prime instinct of a species is to continue itself. To continue the human species we need to sustain ourselves. To sustain the human species we need to eat and provide all of the nutrients needed, ergo, the need to eat animals...

I hope I haven't offended any animalists out there...

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 8:52 am

Originally posted by Tom
I think we need another justification for keeping animals locked up in cages out of their natural habitat and then eating them.

What about Zoo's, what function do they serve? Eating meat i can understand, but Zoo's i can not.

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 8:57 am

Basically, its us or them. If we didn't eat cows our brains would be horribly under-nourished, allowing the bovines to develop their central nervous system and contest us for the coveted position of top of the food chain.

Think of the horrible conflict. And if we lost, yep, that's right. There be McHuman sandwiches served at McMoo's restaurants.

I'm doing more than my fair share in the war on cow-dom. I eat 1 or 2 steaks a week.

Seriously.

My girlfriend will not eat animals because they are intelligent creatures. I just don't think too much about it. I look at it from a taste perspective rather than intelligence.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:05 am

When its possible to stop eating other thinking beings and still be able to find sufficent food suplies (wich it definatly is now, atleast here in sweden) there is no jutification to continue.

@Sleep: The conditions most animals breed for eating live under today is not even close to decent. The days of small-scale close to nature farms are since long gone.

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:10 am

I think that the vegetarian/buddhist argument that one shouldn't deliberately hurt any other creature is alright....but it's for food. If you are going to kill animals just for fun, then that is evil...if, however, you're going to eat them, then fine. I don't have any stong opinions.....I think that killig animals for food is wrong, but only about as wrong as harvesting potatoes when the worms could be eating them and therefore forcing a worm to starve. I don't think it's all that bad.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:14 am

Originally posted by Dottie
When its possible to stop eating other thinking beings and still be able to find sufficent food suplies (wich it definatly is now, atleast here in sweden) there is no jutification to continue.

@Sleep: The conditions most animals breed for eating live under today is not even close to decent. The days of small-scale close to nature farms are since long gone.

I am not sure there are any better alternatives, Soya has been known to cause problems (can't remember at the moment) i can not think of decent alternitives, can you point some out.

I know that, but then they are still better than the alternative IMHO.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:19 am

Mankind eats meat. Nothing to do about that.

But the animals need to be treated good before we eat them, but thats not my duty. It's up to people in high places to make the rules about that and the farm holders who have to follow those rules.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:29 am

@Sleep: I dont know if there is any alternatives that have exactly the same properites as meat. What i do know is that there are many vegetarians around that live and prosper, there is definatly no doupt that you can survive and live well without eating animals.

There is many animals living in the wild today that dont have a high population growth. But i may have missunderstood you.

@Rob-hin: Here i like to quote Sleeps old sig. If i remember correctly it was: What we call human nature is actually human habbit.

Please correct me if im wrong Sleep.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:37 am

Originally posted by Dottie
[B@Rob-hin: Here i like to quote Sleeps old sig. If i remember correctly it was: What we call human nature is actually human habbit.
[/b]

I like meat, reason enough for me to eat it.
But the animals do need to have had a good life. It's all about finding a good balance.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:44 am

Originally posted by Rob-hin

I like meat, reason enough for me to eat it.
But the animals do need to have had a good life. It's all about finding a good balance.

If you choose to care more about your comfort then the animals lifes then it is your choice. I eat meat at the moment for that very reason. (although im doing my best to stop

) I just dont think there is any good moral involved in this decision.

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:47 am

@Rob-hin: Here i like to quote Sleeps old sig. If i remember correctly it was: What we call human nature is actually human habbit.

yeah...I saw that on the inside of me sisters Jewel album a coupla years ago. **** me if she knew anything about philosophy.

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:52 am

When I was in the Netherlands I saw lots of healthy, happy moo-cows grazing in lush fields. Much better life than being fed other cows brains on some sewage infested dump in Britain. I ate about 5 steaks that week and boy were they good. I gave them a good home.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:53 am

Personally, I do not believe eating meat to be morally wrong in and of itself.

However, the treatment of animals raised for meat is a major concern. Most are factory farmed, which means that they are placed in extremely cramped quarters (chickens are barely able to turn in the cages in which they are placed....) and fed large quantities of anitiobiotics and growth hormones (hardly healthy for humans.....). Moreover, the feed given to these animals is of questionable origin......often consisting of the dried and ground up corpses of those that do not survive..........

IMO it is ethically acceptable to consume wild game or free range meat, but to eat products that originate from factory farmed animals is simply wrong.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 11:00 am

Originally posted by Gruntboy
When I was in the Netherlands I saw lots of healthy, happy moo-cows grazing in lush fields. Much better life than being fed other cows brains on some sewage infested dump in Britain. I ate about 5 steaks that week and boy were they good. I gave them a good home.

That's where I live!!

Looking at "our" err... happy moo-cows I'd say they don't have a bad life. Holland is a small country yet they have lost of room etc. so I think (hope) they have a good life in every well doeing country (except England

).

@dragon wench,
I totally agree that animals need to have a good life before they are eaten. Hunting wild game however is wrong since this is not necessary for the food. This is only acceptible if there are too many of one kind of animal.

*Gone too eat his fries with a hamburger*

Leonardo · Post by **Leonardo** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 11:45 am

Vegetables are living beings too! Do you know what sort of lettuce civilization or tomato culture was destroyed to make your salad?
If you are killing anyway why not go for a tasty, juicy steak? Keep the salad as it was meant to be: a side dish.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Fri Feb 22, 2002 12:33 pm

If we talk about animals eating us (RE: Grunty), what about animals eating animals? Whats the difference between a wild dog hunting for a rabbit and a man hunting a cow or something?