Congratulations, Canada!

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:29 pm

Looks like the ISU and IOC has succumbed to the international pressure and decided to award Sale and Pelletier with gold medals after all. Short of banning those eastern bloc judges for life, you can't ask for a better closure to this sordid affair. Do they get to keep the silver as well? That would be bonus.
'Probably fetch $10,000 apiece on E-bay.

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Fri Feb 15, 2002 1:12 pm

Heh, if they keep the silver too, they'll probably be the first team to have two medals for one disciplin.

CM · Post by CM » Fri Feb 15, 2002 1:49 pm

Yeha so much for the integrity of the committe.
Next thing you know the chinese will be getting a gold in tennis because the world wants better trade relations.
Now matter if the canadians were cheated or not.
The decision should be final.
Not changed.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Fri Feb 15, 2002 3:53 pm

I actually agree with CM. Mostly because when the whole Ross Rebagalioti thing happened, he kept the gold, regardless. They kind've become hypocrites by doing this.

CM · Post by CM » Fri Feb 15, 2002 3:55 pm

Originally posted by Aegis
I actually agree with CM.

A commer and spammer agree??
Now isn't that a mirale???

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Fri Feb 15, 2002 4:06 pm

Originally posted by CM

A commer and spammer agree??
Now isn't that a mirale???

Actaully, I've renouced my spamming ways, and am taking a break from the forums. Too much **** has happened lately. this is my first real appearance in two weeks.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Fri Feb 15, 2002 4:21 pm

I agree with Fas
Talk about being cry babies.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sat Feb 16, 2002 7:11 am

Figure skating is my favorite winter sports. I think it's better for the sport that the Canadian couple were awarded an additional gold, and I certainly hope the ISU will evaluate the judging procedures. The French judge is banned for lifetime, but I think banning judges is not a long term solution even if it perhaps was the right thing to do in this particular case.

IMO figure skating needs a clearer, more detailed standard for judging, as it is today the rules are too vague and can be very subjectively interpreted.

Anyway, it was nice to see that the men's event turned out to be crystal clear - all judges had Yagudin as no 1 and Plushenko as no 2.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Sat Feb 16, 2002 9:58 am

Originally posted by C Elegans
Anyway, it was nice to see that the men's event turned out to be crystal clear - all judges had Yagudin as no 1 and Plushenko as no 2.

Yep, though I thought Goebel was better than Plushenko

I'm pleased the Canadians have been given the gold medal (even if it's a shared gold), they deserved it

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:40 am

The French judge made his choice. Even if its incorrect according to other people, its his decision. Because other people don't like it, we shouldn't ban him and change the results.

Just a month ago in the NFL playoffs, there was a call in which a quaterback of New England was tackeled by an Oakland player and lost the football, yet because of some odd rule it wasn't called as a fumble and that turned the tide of the game, allowing New England to win. Oakland was leading before that. The coach was furious. Everybody who watched the game saw that as a fumble. Yet nobody could change it because a referee/judges decision is final.
Nobody fired the Ref, the NFL did not give Oakland the game.

IMO giving Canada the gold medal as much as they deserve it, is wrong. The judge's decision is final.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:04 am

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield
The French judge made his choice. Even if its incorrect according to other people, its his decision. Because other people don't like it, we shouldn't ban him and change the results.

She came forward and admitted misconduct, or so I heard... what that means exactly is anyone's guess...

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sat Feb 16, 2002 4:22 pm

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield
The French judge made his choice. Even if its incorrect according to other people, its his decision. Because other people don't like it, we shouldn't ban him and change the results.

Just a month ago in the NFL playoffs, there was a call in which a quaterback of New England was tackeled by an Oakland player and lost the football, yet because of some odd rule it wasn't called as a fumble and that turned the tide of the game, allowing New England to win. Oakland was leading before that. The coach was furious. Everybody who watched the game saw that as a fumble. Yet nobody could change it because a referee/judges decision is final.
Nobody fired the Ref, the NFL did not give Oakland the game.

IMO giving Canada the gold medal as much as they deserve it, is wrong. The judge's decision is final.

That is exactly the way I think too. However injust it may be, they should not have gone back on their decision.

VoodooDali · Post by **VoodooDali** » Sat Feb 16, 2002 4:26 pm

I sorta agree...but NFL referees are paid and the Olympic skating judges are volunteers--I think this sets the situation up for more corruption. If we paid the judges, they might not be so susceptible...

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Sat Feb 16, 2002 5:10 pm

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield
Just a month ago in the NFL playoffs, there was a call in which a quaterback of New England was tackeled by an Oakland player and lost the football, yet because of some odd rule it wasn't called as a fumble and that turned the tide of the game, allowing New England to win. Oakland was leading before that. The coach was furious. Everybody who watched the game saw that as a fumble. Yet nobody could change it because a referee/judges decision is final.
Nobody fired the Ref, the NFL did not give Oakland the game.

The difference is that by the letter of the rule, the official made the right call. By rule, Brady made an incomplete pass, not a fumble. The Raiders got hosed by the rule, not the ref. Upon review, the initial ruling of a fumble was correctly overturned even though Brady knew it should have been a fumble. Sale and Pelletier got hosed by the judges, not the competition.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sat Feb 16, 2002 5:41 pm

Originally posted by Georgi

Yep, though I thought Goebel was better than Plushenko

Goebel's jumps were fantastic, but his problem is what happens between the jumps or rather, what doesn't happen. His step sequences are at a much lower difficulty level and much less variation than Plushenko's and Yagudin's, and he also skates considerably slower, which means he has to do a lot of skating to reach the high speed necessary for the jumps, whereas the Russian's reach highest speed in 2-3 steps. I think Goebels will be much better in a couple of years, when he has matured artistically

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:36 pm

Originally posted by HighLordDave

The difference is that by the letter of the rule, the official made the right call. By rule, Brady made an incomplete pass, not a fumble. The Raiders got hosed by the rule, not the ref. Upon review, the initial ruling of a fumble was correctly overturned even though Brady knew it should have been a fumble. Sale and Pelletier got hosed by the judges, not the competition.

Okay, but a judge is supposed to judge. The French judge for some odd reason preferred the Russian couple's performance over the Canadians.
Thats the way she judged it.

If the jury wrongfully sends a man to jail, their decision is final, and nobody can really change that.
They are hired to decide who is wrong and who is right.
As much as you think that they are wrong, and they may have been, its final, unless some other proof shows up later.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Sat Feb 16, 2002 9:49 pm

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield

Okay, but a judge is supposed to judge. The French judge for some odd reason preferred the Russian couple's performance over the Canadians.
Thats the way she judged it.

If the French judge had decided upon the merits of the performances she saw that the Russians had done better, then by all means the Russians should be the sole possessors of the gold medal. If the French judge cut a backroom deal to give the Russians gold in pairs figure skating in exchange for the Russian vote for the French ice dancing pair, then she deserves to be sanctioned (read: barred for life from judging again) and the judgement reviewed.

I think there is enough evidence of vote tampering and collusion to at least merit an investigation, but I think that it happened to quickly that it smells like a band aid to sweep this incident under the rug rather than reform the judging system in figure skating.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Mon Feb 18, 2002 4:35 am

Originally posted by C Elegans
Goebel's jumps were fantastic, but his problem is what happens between the jumps or rather, what doesn't happen. His step sequences are at a much lower difficulty level and much less variation than Plushenko's and Yagudin's, and he also skates considerably slower, which means he has to do a lot of skating to reach the high speed necessary for the jumps, whereas the Russian's reach highest speed in 2-3 steps. I think Goebels will be much better in a couple of years, when he has matured artistically

Yeah, I see what you're saying, presentation was where he lost the marks, but I thought that the music he skated to suited quite a relaxed style. I think some of the judges agreed, his presentation marks were very varied.