Ra Ra Ra Rasputin

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:00 am

Question, questions, questions.

This infamous character has been greatly discussed (not here that i recall) i was interested to hear SYMers viewpoint on the "devil incarnate". Is it all hokum, was he an evil man, was he battling the devil, was he a prophet for the doom of an empire... care to share your opinions on his many famous actions?

Der-draigen · Post by **Der-draigen** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:09 am

All I remember abour Rasputin is: Someone once tried to kill him by rolling him up in a carpet and throwing him into the Moscow River...

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:14 am

Originally posted by Der-draigen
All I remember abour Rasputin is: Someone once tried to kill him by rolling him up in a carpet and throwing him into the Moscow River...

Apparently they had poisoned him and shot him before they threw him in the river.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:19 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep

Apparently they had poisoned him and shot him before they threw him in the river.

Yes, they had. A Russian aristocrat (name escapes me

) invited Rasputin to one of his reknowned parties, took him to a private dining room and fed him arsenic laced cakes and wine. When this failed to kill him, he shot him. This didn't kill him either, so they tossed him into the river...IIRC an autopsy concluded he had drowned...the aristocracy were concerned about the power he held over the Czarina, which kept the Czar on the front line...effectively Rasputin was running the country. My opinion? A mad, power crazed man, but very clever!

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:31 am

Originally posted by Yshania
IIRC an autopsy concluded he had drowned

Yep

...the aristocracy were concerned about the power he held over the Czarina, which kept the Czar on the front line...effectively Raspution was running the country. My opinion? A mad, power crazed man, but very clever!

Although his political movements weren't so clever

CM · Post by CM » Wed Feb 13, 2002 2:14 pm

Ok from my limited knowledge about pre-communist russia, Rasputin, was a preist or magician - he was rumored to have dark dealings with evil creatures. If these are rumors or not i have no idea.

Though i vaguely recall that there were various attempts on his life, and he survived all of them. He was an impossible man to kill. He seemed to have saved the life of someone in the royal family with unusual means.
But this is all vaguely remembered and may be wrong.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 2:18 pm

@Fas, he proclaimed to have knowledge of a cure for the young prince's haemophilia

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 2:21 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep

Although his political movements weren't so clever

Ah yes!

but it took the Russian populace a while to realise they were his policies and not the Czar's...

CM · Post by CM » Wed Feb 13, 2002 2:37 pm

Thanks Ysh.
Now since the truce is over, be gone darkflame!

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 2:47 pm

so you all saw the documentary on tuesday aswell?

if not, how do you know all this stuff? Is rasputin famous?
I knew nothing about him untill I saw this program the other day..

but to me it seems that he was just about as normal as anyone can be growing up in cyberia...

point is, I reckon most cyberian peasants are (by neccessity) a bit wierd, but the results of most of their wierdness is that they live in a freezing wilderness and do nothing their entire life... this particular guy however, got out into the big world of religion and moscow and his wierdness just found a bunch of new, satanic, cosmopolitan grounding points.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 2:55 pm

@Frogus - you mean you never listened to Boney M?

Actually, I didn't see any documentary, though I would have been interested...I studied him briefly in history at school...though my memory is a little hazy now

Interesting theory, though maybe he harboured a touch of madness not borne only of hardship...there were many more peasants around who did not behave as he. He had charisma, and intent, and he was manipulative...he sold an apparent skill of healing to the royal family, who then took him under their wing as a political and military advisor

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:23 am

Originally posted by frogus
so you all saw the documentary on tuesday aswell?

Indeed i did

It was actually a very impressive documentary IMHO

He is very famous within certain fields, he is definately one of the more famous people supposedly overtaken by the devil.

@Ysh so i am not the only Boney M fan

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:45 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep

@Ysh so i am not the only Boney M fan

erm...you probably are!

I never confessed to being a fan, only to have been familiar with their stuff!

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 8:14 am

Originally posted by Yshania
erm...you probably are! I never confessed to being a fan, only to have been familiar with their stuff!

That's what i meant, it's like quoting Ancients of Moo Moo, you know who it is, doesn't mean you like it (did i avoid embarraesment?

)

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:21 am

Heh, the only Boney M song i am familliar with happen to be just Rasputin

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:24 am

Originally posted by Yshania
Interesting theory, though maybe he harboured a touch of madness not borne only of hardship...there were many more peasants around who did not behave as he. He had charisma, and intent, and he was manipulative...he sold an apparent skill of healing to the royal family, who then took him under their wing as a political and military advisor

If Rasputin had been an AD&D character, he would have been a priest with low level healing abilities, n the sense that he could repair temporary damage caused by hemophilia, without however correcting the initial condition. He was also gifted with extremely high Charisma and Constitution. He was not particularly Intelligent or Wise. In alignment, he moved regularly between Lawful Neutral and True Neutral, putting himself first before all others, yet maintaining that he did so only to preserve the Russian Royal Family.

(Let's remember that 19th century Russia was still to an extent in the Late Middle Ages, intellectually speaking, and embraced the concept of the King as a representative of God with a holy mission. -For that matter, you can even hear some of the same thought patterns in far right US religious congregations, whose leaders speak of politicians with the correct ideological credentials as "led by God" and "bearing the Sword of Light on a Crusade to restore Christianity to its proper place in the United States," etc.)

Rasputin wrote a final letter to the Czar in which he raves that if a common assassin cut him down, all would be well, but if more than this was involved, God help the Russian people, for the Royal Family would fall, etc. I think there was no perceptiveness involved in these somewhat incoherent remarks, committed to paper in advance of the event. There had already been several requests for greater personal freedoms for the nation by various political parties, usually in the center of the spectrum, which were met with ruthless reprisals under direct order of the Czar: shooting on sight was the common solution. Given that the Czar and his government were unable to find anyway to deal with the need for political change in Russia, with a World War going on, a declining economy, and brutal repression at home, it was only a matter of time before some group took out first Rasputin, and then the Czar and his heirs.

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:41 am

If Rasputin had been an AD&D character...

hmmm....set's me a thinkin...possibly a custom kit...like a paladin only not so good at fighting and without that lawful good malarky.

I don't know how he'd do in BG, but there's definately something in that for NWN

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:50 am

Nice one Fable!

Though some that told of Rasputin's life, did like to hint that his final letter to the Czar was somewhat prophetic, since it intimated that should the aristocracy or the military be involved in his murder then the Royal family would follow...perhaps by emphasising the prophetic nature of this note, it added to the air of mysticism around Rasputin?...

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:58 am

Originally posted by Yshania
Nice one Fable! Though some that told of Rasputin's life, did like to hint that his final letter to the Czar was somewhat prophetic, since it intimated that should the aristocracy or the military be involved in his murder then the Royal family would follow...perhaps by emphasising the prophetic nature of this note, it added to the air of mysticism around Rasputin?...

That's my impression, @Yshania. A lot of people really get into this popular mysticism stuff, studying Nostradamus, Rasputin, de Gebelin, etc. I think the stuff only works if they disregard 90% of reality and concentrate on the 10% they want to see.