Which Casterlevels are used to calculate spellpower ?

Amidala · Post by **Amidala** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 10:05 am

I have read somewhere that they established new rules to that?
If a spell lasts for 2 rounds per caster level or does 1d6 damage per casterlevel and your caster is Level 36 then its still treatet as Level 20 or so.
Example dual Ranger13/Cleric36 compared to multi Ranger24/Cleric24, or dual Fighter/Mage to multi fighter/mage.
So if there is a casterlevel cap (or multiple) for the spell calculations than a Cleric 24 maybe equal to Cleric 36 except for Turn Undead.
If there is no cap than a Level 36 mage would be much more powerfull than a Level 22.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 10:22 am

Interesting, but I think it will make the game even most unbalanced.

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: Kovi ]

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 3:17 pm

Level-dependent effects are coded in the spell files. To support levels 21-31, all spells with level-dependent would have to be modified.

I'm not familiar with high-level AD&D rules, but I wouldn't be surprised if most spells are capped at 20 anyway (just like Fireball is capped at 10).

King Leoric · Post by **King Leoric** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 9:15 pm

Yeah, i've heard a lot about these cap for "spell caster level" at level 20, but i never bothered measuring the durations of the spells or making considerations about damage done to creatures. But if i remember, by my average damage, there seems to be a cap at level 20 for the level of hte caster for determining the power of the spell.

I'd also like to know at which level does a level 20 inquisitor dispel magic (should be 2*level, but with this cap, the inquisitor's dispel magic would cap when he reaches level 10, and without the cap, he'd never fail a dispel magic!!!)

Does anyone know something about this?

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Sun Dec 09, 2001 2:54 am

I am pretty sure that dispel magic looks at the actual level and is not capped. So an Inquisitor past level 15 never fails a dispel. I don't think any monster in the game is over level 30 so a bard with remove magic is almost better.
I saw a big difference in success rate when dispelling with my solo sorceror past level 20.

Amidala · Post by **Amidala** » Sun Dec 09, 2001 6:51 am

Xyx, at your site:
BGII Spells Reference

you write:
Level
Spells are implemented up to level 20 in BGII. Spells that level up will not increase in effectiveness after that, even if their description does not mention they are capped.

So this is confirmed ? A level 20 mage gets as many stoneskins as a level 40 ? A sculltrap does same damage at 20 and 40 ?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sun Dec 09, 2001 7:22 am

IIRC it was mentioned in the ToB manual or readme or something - that spells where level had effect these were capped at lvl. 20.
So if you get d6 damage per level it would be 20d6 at max.

Sabre · Post by **Sabre** » Sun Dec 09, 2001 7:30 am

Yes, the spells that are dependent on caster levels are capped at level 20 - this is the caster's level, not the spell level. So, the Inquisitor's Dispel Magic is capped when the Inquisitor is at level 20, so the spell is cast as a level 40 spell - twice the Inquisitor's level.

Amidala · Post by **Amidala** » Sun Dec 09, 2001 12:44 pm

I just had a nice chat with some folks of TeamBG. The Spells are not capped, they are simply not extended.
So a level 20 mage is not more powerfull than level 40 concerning spell level.
Examples:
Stoneskin level20: 10 skins, level40: 10 skins
Skull Trap level 20: 20d6, level 40: 20d6

However if the spelldata is extended the spells can get higher.
Example:
Child of Bhaal ability Hand of Murder:
Level 10: 2 rounds, +4 damage, +4 heal
Level 20: 8 rounds, +8 damage, +8 heal
Level 30: 6 rounds, +12 damage, +12 heal

If someone finds some spells that are capped earlier or extended beyond level 20 (and not described so) please post here.

Loredweller · Post by **Loredweller** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 10:02 am

Well, it's true. Shame that Bioware's so lazy

True indeed, Keldorn's Dispel Magic stops at level 20 (at the power of 40). Skull trap hits no more than 20D6, there is no more than 10 skins for stoneskin (i believe, also for ironskin)... It might be not hard to correct, but it's long routine work, it's why, IMHO, they have deceived us - or they couldn't make monsters hard enough to counter in higher levels

Even more, Chaotic Commands seems stopping even at level 18... and now i have suspicion it's not alone.

Sabre · Post by **Sabre** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 1:06 am

No, its not. There are several spells that have irregular power levels which does not fit with the descriptions. Adding spells up to level 40 means that all of the spells that are level dependent need to have another 20 or so abilities added to them, that's a lot of editing work. Spell levels work by the use of different abilities within the spell file, each of these requires a certain level to use.

Example: Skull Trap
Level 1 - the mage can only access the first ability, which have the Skull Trap set at 1D6 fire damage
Level 2 - access second ability, Skull Trap set at 2D6
...
Level 20 - access last (20th) ability, Skull Trap set at 20D6 fire damage

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sun Dec 16, 2001 11:22 am

Not all level-dependent spells are capped at level 20 exactly. Some go up to level 24 or so. You can check these things out using [url="http://infexp.sourceforge.net/"]Infinity Explorer[/url] or (even better) [url="http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~joh/ni/"]Near Infinity[/url].

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 7:15 pm

Dispel and remove magic are not capped at 20. When you get to level 40 you are never affected by enemies dispel and you never fail your own.