Is local multi-culturalism possible?

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jan 12, 2002 11:53 pm

We hear a lot about "multi-culturalism" in a small world growing smaller every day: international government-run consortiums, private international cartels, the Internet, cable television, eruptions of violence that drive populations across the borders and into new lands.

My question to you is this: is multi-culturalism inherently sustainable within any given nation? Not with a tiny minority, but after the absorption of a large, immigrant population? It may have worked, after all, when the Normans invaded the Saxons, but it took several hundred years for things to quiet down; and we all know of how close to the surface cultural violence can be in even seemingly peaceful societies.

So by your own experience, knowledge, or best guess, is such a thing as multi-culturalism at home (in the national and local community) a workable situation?

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 12:23 am

Im not entirely sure i read you right here, but i dont think its possible for two "different cultures" to live next to each other withouth changeing each other at the same time.

This is one of the things that make me very optimistic about the future of the human species since i belive that merging of culters in this way will lead to better understanding and easier acceptance of things different from you own norm and also make yourself challange that norm in the light of a different view.

Shadow Sandrock · Post by **Shadow Sandrock** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 3:01 am

My community has a vast variety of languages spoken within it, and a vast variety of cultures. I have Italian, Spanish, Laodecian, and Japanese neighbors all in a strip of about 6 houses. They all speak their home languages fluently, so it is not uncommon to hear someone scream in Laodecian at my school. Italian communities dominate my town, and well it's apparent by all the Italian restaurants. I think we have, what, 1 Chinese place in the whole town of 35,000. I speak English...

And we all get along fine. Until you get to Providence, where the Portuguese-speaking minority start up again...

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 4:03 am

I would like to think so. I would have to agree though with Dottie that such contacts in large scale would cause a significant change in the diff cultures concerned IF PEACEFUL co-existence is to be had.

Tolerance and open-mindedness are the key there.

Possible, but pragmatically speaking, difficult to achieve especially if cultural values clash.

GandalfgalTTV · Post by **GandalfgalTTV** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 4:23 am

IMO: Tolerance and open-mindedness are, just like the others said, absolutely necessary after that it depends on

The extend of the differences between the cultures.
The history between the two cultures.[/list=a]
Culture is an ever evolving thing, but it takes a long time to merge two cultures into one new. If the above two factors are not too big, it will take a long time, otherwise it wont work.

Morlock · Post by **Morlock** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:18 am

Well, from my experience, it's not. Although I come from New York, just scroll down a bit to see where I am now.
I guess I am not the best example.

Shadow Sandrock · Post by **Shadow Sandrock** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:20 am

Originally posted by Morlock:
<STRONG>Well, from my experience, it's not. Although I come from New York, just scroll down a bit to see where I am now.
I guess I am not the best example.</STRONG>

There's nothing wrong with moving... I mean nobody wants to pak da caa in havid yahd really.

(and that is the way we talk in southern new england/new york city, that is SUPPOSED to say Park the car in Harvard Yard.)

People who happen to recognize the existence of the letter 'r' around here are a rare bunch... I mean, we can't wait for the month of "Mach"

Shadow Sandrock · Post by **Shadow Sandrock** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:33 am

I'm just adding, multiculturalism can work, I mean I have a very good example of somewhere where people from all different countries, time zones, and languages meet every day to talk to each other and that is right here.

We're all human, after all

Except for Weasel, last time I checked, he was... a weasel

Morlock · Post by **Morlock** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:39 am

@SS: I meant my currnet place of residence.
Jerusalem.

Shadow Sandrock · Post by **Shadow Sandrock** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:48 am

Originally posted by Morlock:
<STRONG>@SS: I meant my currnet place of residence.
Jerusalem.</STRONG>

Why did you move to Jerusalem? Just wondering. If you find my question kinda rude ya don't hafta answer it

Morlock · Post by **Morlock** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:57 am

I don't mind.
Land of my fathers - I am jewish.
As a matter of fact Alan Greenspan is family. He is married to my mothers cousin.
I meant what I put in my Signature.
I'm bleeping Shomer Shabas!

[ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: Morlock ]

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 7:34 am

I think it depends on what you mean by "culture," "tolerance" (of what?) and open-mindedness. Sorry, but my thinking is political, and words such as these are politically loaded and subject to interpretation and manipulation by all groups within the ideological spectrum, whether they are aware of it or not.

P.S. Welcome back fable!

[ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: EMINEM ]

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 9:42 am

Canada, specifically Toronto, is one of the biggest multi-cultural communities. When you walk down Bloor St., or Dundas, it is impossible to take two steps and not see Japenese, Chinese, Italian, Spanish, Greek, Russian, and even more. Poeple in Canada are very accepting of other cultures, and I'm not saying other cities aren't, but we always have been. When the States was refusing entry to refugees during WW1 and WW2, those people then came to Canada, and made a life. But, in the long run, it all burns down to the days when North America was still being founded, and the Noble Savage being "incepted" into the British and French cultures with open arms.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 10:13 am

Multi-culturalism possible? It depends on what you mean. If, by multi-culturalism you mean two or more cultures living peacefully side by side, interacting and sharing their lives but without substantially changing each other, then I would agree with Dottie, and that is surely impossible. If the cultures are allowed to affect each other, in terms of the definition, then surely it must be possible.

Growing up (in the US) I was convinced that the future of our world was destined to resemble a Star Trek utopia, with everyone judged by their merits rather than by skin color or ethnic background. I think for a while, everyone truly thought that this was the way to go. A big melting pot, so to speak. But pretty soon, the pendulum of opinion swung the other way, and ethnic groups (i.e. non-Euro American Caucasians) began realizing that the utopic visions of the future were all built on a Caucasian model. Ethnic groups would lose their ethnic identity in the melting pot. Consequently the fight for diversity began.

Ultimately, however, the melting pot must occur to a certain extent if peace is to be achieved. More importantly, no one model for the utopia will be the right one. An amalgam between cultures will create a new culture. Allowances must be made for diversity within the melting pot as well as within individual ethnic/cultural groups.

Moerman wrote a seminal article on cultural identity on the frontiers of cultural territories. The article was entitled “Who Are the Lue”.... darn, that was a long time ago that I read it... I think it would pertain....

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 10:27 am

If I recall, there are four ways cultures can exist together.
Assimilation- Integrating one culture into another, usually the small into the large
Integration - Similiar to assimilation, but the cultures both retain their indivduality, like the reserve systems of N. America.
Segregation- Like the way African americans were treated in the U.S and Canada this century.
And lastly, morally and numerically, Annihilation, examples are the Spanish destroying the South American cultures, and Nazi Germany killing off the Jews.
No offense to anyone intended.

What I think fable means, is people living together and maintaining their culture, its all well and good for everyone to be merged together, but humans by nature are a diverse breed with many different customs, beliefs and religion.

What is needed is an increased acceptance of minorities AND their culture. Let them practice their customs without comment, Jews have their practices, as do Christians, Muslims, Budhists etc, everyone is different, and I think it's time we accept it, and not try to make everyone into one big homegenous family.

BTW fable, you should really check out the Cyber Soap Box.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 11:33 am

Integration is the subject of my question, KE. I can think of several examples: white and black South Africans, Turks in Germany, Blacks and Chicanos in the US, Northern Ireland, Zimbabwe, the Caucasus, Botswana, China and Tibet, etc. Each situation is unique; some are really amalgams of dozens of unique experiences (like middleclass Blacks in Philadelphia, lowerclass Blacks in NYC, Cubans in Miami, etc).

Can any of these situations work as other than assimilation, and what will the answers be? We've seen everything from mini-cold wars in these zones to deliberate genocide.