Is it OK to question religion?

at99 · Post by **at99** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 1:23 am

Is it OK to question religion?

This question is a controversial one with no easy answers. On one hand you can hurt peoples emotions and on the other you have some intellectual concerns.

What if you dont agree with some religous interpretations, do you be quite and let it fester or let it out and try get a resolution?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 5:07 am

IMO people can belive what they like, as long as they don't try to "convert" me.
If people need religion - then fine, if not - fine.

Therefore I have no real problem with people discussion religion and/or questioning it - I simply dosen't care enough about it to get excited about it

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 6:06 am

@at99:
Are you questioning your own religion or someone else's? I think when you question someone else's religion, especially their personal beliefs, you have a chance to hurt people when you don't mean to.

If you have a question about your own religion, such as "What does the Presbyterian Church (USA) have to say about volunteering for the armed services when God has told us 'Thou shall not kill'?", you might seek out someone whom you trust in the church (the church educator, your pastor, the rabbi, etc.) and ask their opinion. In many cases they will take your discussions in confidence and tell you what your church has to say on a particular matter.

If you feel that you cannot trust someone in your church to keep your confidence or give you an educated, well-rounded opinion, you might go to someone else in your denomination that you can have that discussion with.

It is my opinion that questioning your faith, both your personal faith as well as your corporate faith, is the best way to become a spiritually stronger person. It is my experience that people who cannot stand to have their faith questioned are insecure or have the faith of someone else; that is, they have been indoctrinated with someone else's religion (probably their parents), and have not taken personal ownership of their beliefs. They believe something because their parents or their pastor has told them to, not because they came by their beliefs on their won.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 8:52 am

Yes... to a point. Sooner or later, I think the doubter must make a decision whether or not that particular faith he is questioning is true and reasonable, and act on it. You can't be expected to practice that religion consistently if you doubt its teachings consistently. Fence-sitting is a very uncomfortable position to be in. The good news is that there is no shortage of apologetic (and anti-apologetic) literature out there which go a long way to answer the questions you might have, written by men and women who probably struggled with the same things about their religion. Ultimately, however, you are your own person, and the decision is one you must make alone.

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 8:56 am

Personally, I think that religion, like anything else, becomes dangerous when it's not questioned.

at99 · Post by **at99** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 4:54 pm

I dont have a problem questioning religion but it seems other people do, and this is where the problem is for me.

Is it good enough to go to christian church once a week and sing songs and expect to go to heaven (thats all you do). Not so according to raja yoga or monastic lifestles for eg.

Should we accept a book being written by god like the koran , which discounts it to be a historical document in Islamic eyes. It was produced by mohammed who could not even read or write? (look at that rushdie guy at his efforts to question things)

Does the passage of time alter the original religious documents.?

CM · Post by CM » Fri Nov 16, 2001 4:57 pm

You can and should question your own religion.

However if you have no clue about someone elses religion you have no right to second guess it.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 6:08 pm

I wondered if you were "fronting" this seemingly innocent thread to eventually turn it into another one of your "hate Islam" themes, @At99, and it appears you came through as expected.

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

at99 · Post by **at99** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 7:40 pm

Originally posted by fable:
I wondered if you were "fronting" this seemingly innocent thread to eventually turn it into another one of your "hate Islam" themes, @At99, and it appears you came through as expected.

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

I wish you would stop this personal attack and you have assumed my motives. I thought personal attacks are not allowed!!

This seemlingly innocent thread? I know you have to tread with caution on this. But this was part of my concerns 'how to'

I have many genuine queries about religion especially Chhristian. I dont mind your opinion and I am not interested in personal attacks OR to single out just 1 religion.

I think you should apologize or just stop replying to my threads.

Word · Post by **Word** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 7:56 pm

Hey it didn't take long for this thread to heat up.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 8:14 pm

Originally posted by at99:
I dont have a problem questioning religion but it seems other people do, and this is where the problem is for me.

Theres a difference between questioning a religion and being racist.

VoodooDali · Post by **VoodooDali** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 9:00 pm

In a word, No.

Sincerely,
Pope John Paul II

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 9:16 pm

I'm not entirely sure what at99 means by "questioning", but IMO religion as a belief system can and should be questioned and evaluated just like any other topic like political views or moral systems. We should all be able to question and/or critise religious beliefs and religious systems, free speach and free opinions is no less important in this area than other areas.
However, just as with other things, I don't think questioning or critising should be in the form of personal attacks or derogative comments.

I'm totally against the idea that something should not be questioned just because it is a personal belief. Religious people and religious systems should not have some kind of "immunity" against being questioned. Everybody has the same right to believe or not belive in any religion.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 9:24 pm

Originally posted by at99:
I wish you would stop this personal attack and you have assumed my motives. I thought personal attacks are not allowed!!

The only personal atttack, here, is the one you're re-launching on aspects of Arabic culture--in this case, Islam. If you care to challenge that, I'll go back to repost the captures I took of your old messages attacking Arab culture, and your unwillingness to answer fundamental questions and charges from a host of posters regarding your bigotry.

@At99, consider this a final warning, following what you've received, before. You've started nudging a thread you'd begun about questioning religion without specifics into one about a specific culture you intensely dislike, and if you continue, it will not be tolerated.

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 9:40 pm

Originally posted by at99:
I have many genuine queries about religion especially Chhristian. I dont mind your opinion and I am not interested in personal attacks OR to single out just 1 religion.

At99, in previous threads you have posted culture racist comments, so some of us here are of course a bit cautious about your sincere interest in the issue of religion. However, I also remember you stated you were not used to this kind of moderated board and people taking your comments seriously, so I think everybody is willing to give you a second chance.

Fable's warning should be taken very seriously - you now have the possibility to show that you learned from previous critisism and is able to discuss different religions and cultures in a respectful manner. Being respectful does not mean not critising and not questioning, but it means refraining from personal attacks, sweeping generalisations and it also includes an effort to understand other people's views, even if we don't agree with them.

at99 · Post by **at99** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 10:21 pm

Originally posted by fable:
The only personal atttack, here, is the one you're re-launching on aspects of Arabic culture--in this case, Islam. If you care to challenge that, I'll go back to repost the captures I took of your old messages attacking Arab culture, and your unwillingness to answer fundamental questions and charges from a host of posters regarding your bigotry.

@At99, consider this a final warning, following what you've received, before. You've started nudging a thread you'd begun about questioning religion without specifics into one about a specific culture you intensely dislike, and if you continue, it will not be tolerated.

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

I think you still owe me an apology for assuming my intentions ?

You still seem quite agitated from before. This was a while ago and I have forgotten a lot of it.

I think the wisest thing for me to do is not to reply to your messages.

You hold a lot of baggage and believe me when I say 'no more' . I would like to speak my mind to you but I feel you will just argue against anything I say for the sake of it. 'on any topic'

Unless you want to comprise and apologize to me.

I should have not continued a discussion with you for so long in the past. I can let things go and move on and I see you cant.

I think by not reponding anymore to each other is a safer way to go and I am sorry you still feel agitated.

'bye fable'

[ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: at99 ]

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Sat Nov 17, 2001 1:58 am

Hmmm....I saw this thread and wondered how long it would take before it deteriorated into tantrums and personal attacks...

IMHO we all have the right to question everything taught. This is how we truly learn, by being able to understand...

However, religion will always be a strong subject, as for a lot of people it is more than a straightforward acceptance of teachings and practices - it is an unquestioned way of life. When you start questioning how someone lives, you run the risk of racism -if not tactful, sympathetic and researched...

If there are ulterior motives, it is a shame, @at99 was your intention to publically question a particular faith or have you had your question answered?

Have you read the bible? the Koran? are there specific passages that you would like to dicuss? If so we have a very learned community here that I am sure would be glad to help you understand, if your approach is to learn and not to criticise. Or are you questioning a faith as a whole, or questioning the sensitivities of people when their beliefs are being analysed?

Personally, I tend to stay clear of such debates. Not practising a religion does not disqualify me from having an opinion, but by carelessly throwing in a comment you can be understood to be unsympathetic, dismissive or at worst racist...

IMHO you are not wrong in questioning beliefs, but a supported arguement would be advisable to avoid offending or upsetting others...

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Nov 17, 2001 2:41 am

@at99, this isn't a question of continuing a discussion from the past, or "agitating" over it. Quite simply, this has to do with the many complaints stated in the SYM forum and received in mail concerning your bigotry in other topics. And if you read back, you'll find that I was one of the last to reluctantly conclude that you were, in fact, extremely biased.

You were warned at that time concerning attacks on Arabic culture. I was alerted to the fact that you were attacking Arab culture again, this time through the medium of its pervasive religion. It does seem to represent a pattern for you, and in keeping with the policy of this board, you are being warned once more not to concentrate your derogatory efforts on Arabic culture in any form. You are welcome to continue the topic either in a general sense, as you started it, or by drawing examples from a variety of religions. But don't focus on one.

at99 · Post by **at99** » Sat Nov 17, 2001 4:20 pm

Originally posted by at99:

Is it good enough to go to christian church once a week and sing songs and expect to go to heaven (thats all you do). Not so according to raja yoga or monastic lifestles for eg.

Does the passage of time alter the original religious documents.?

This is what I am most interested in.
I was hoping to see ohter peoples reponse.

Also, if someone reponse becomes to heated for your liking just back off and dont respond anymore to that person. This is better and safer than personal attacks.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Sat Nov 17, 2001 7:54 pm

at99 writes:
Is it good enough to go to christian church once a week and sing songs and expect to go to heaven (thats all you do). Not so according to raja yoga or monastic lifestles for eg.
Does the passage of time alter the original religious documents.?

EMINEM:
Just a clarification, at99. It is NOT good enough for Christians to go to church every Sunday and expect to go to heaven. One of the fundamental doctrines of Protestantism (and recently, of Catholicism, too) is that Christians are saved by one thing and one thing only - the grace (love and mercy) of Jesus Christ ("sola grati," to echo Luther), and not by any good deeds they may have done in life. Attending church every Sunday and learning about the Scriptures is necessary if one wishes to grow in his/her faith, but don't think it will get you any closer to heaven than the atheist who sleeps in that same morning.

To answer your latter question; I don't think the passage of time alters the religious documents, if the reliable copies of the original manuscripts have been preserved, as is the case with the New Testment gospels and apostolic letters. Interpretations may differ (slightly), but the meanings the authors intended can be easily understood even by highschoolers.