Ressurection or Reincarnation?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 9:14 am

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn:
Well, I'm hoping Sleep will revoke his Word.

Not at the current time. For several reasons, one of which is that this thread veered greatly off Eminems original post, it was also a between just two people, the exact same conversation could have been conducted over PM and none of us would have been the wiser, no problem with a conversation veering off course - i know i have done it myself on several occasions

- but this particular discussion was twice as long as the original conversations.

Perhaps one of you should bump the 'Theological Quandries 101' thread, that is after all what you are debating.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 9:25 am

Or maybe we could start up a new thread. It bears thinking about.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 9:35 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep:
Not at the current time.

Alright. As I'm sure you know, I'll abide by your decision.

Originally posted by Mr Sleep:
it was also a between just two people, the exact same conversation could have been conducted over PM and none of us would have been the wiser

Exactly, but now you're wiser, or at least more knowledgable.

What use is a debate if not to learn?

@fable I am still waiting for that list of books you're read by protestant authors and the names of the authors. Just because the debate has been haulted doesn't mean you can't post that, right Sleep? fable did ask me if I wanted a list of them and I answered yes. He has had plenty of time to give me this list but has, for some reason unbeknownst to me, neglected to do this.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 9:40 am

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn:
Exactly, but now you're wiser, or at least more knowledgable

Not true for me actually SS, i knew nearly all that you were talking about, apart from the authors, so post them Fable if you wish

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 9:59 am

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn:
@fable I am still waiting for that list of books you're read by protestant authors and the names of the authors. Just because the debate has been haulted doesn't mean you can't post that, right Sleep? fable did ask me if I wanted a list of them and I answered yes. He has had plenty of time to give me this list but has, for some reason unbeknownst to me, neglected to do this.

Come now, @SS. I think we both know there were so many subjects being considered that it was inevitable some of them would fall by the wayside, just so that we could get a bit of focus, and prevent our answers from turning into 2000-word dissertations.

Here's a list I would suggest you consider starting with. I'm just going to mention names, since I don't have the time to check current availability on any given work; and I can only hope that all of them may be found in a bookstore near you. If not, I suggest you try a good used bookstore with a strong religious stock:

Martin Neimoller (FYI, my specific fave is "God is My Fuehrer," but as my copy's dated 1941, I suspect someone will have retitled it with something less spectacular since then), Jacob Boehme, Kaspar Schwenkfeld, A.W. Tozer, Hannah Whitall Smith, Melanchthon, Luther (obviously), Leibniz, Alan Ecclestone, Johann Arndt, William Law, John Calvin (but not too much!), Sebastian Franck, Issac Williams, John Wesley, Geoffrey Lampe.

Note, there is a good deal of division among the doctrines expressed by these authors; but all represent very serious and distinguished Protestant authors who had a great deal to say about their religion, their God, and the way to live the religious life.

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 10:27 am

One more thought: please, consider that there is much to be gained from studying traditions in Christianity other than just the Protestant. If you have no liking for Roman Catholicism, try works of Eastern Orthodoxy and the so-called "Patristic Fathers" that predated the split when the Bishop of Rome decided he should king of the hill. I would especially recommend The Philokalia, an excellent three-volume compilation of early Eastern Orthodox thought, first gathered in the 18th century. The documents in it generally date from the 4th century through the 10th, and there is a great deal of practical content among much else that is theological, anecdotal or dogmatic in nature.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 10:33 am

Originally posted by fable:
Come now, @SS. I think we both know there were so many subjects being considered that it was inevitable some of them would fall by the wayside, just so that we could get a bit of focus, and prevent our answers from turning into 2000-word dissertations.

I know, that's why I continually reminded you about this.

Originally posted by fable:
Here's a list I would suggest you consider starting with. I'm just going to mention names, since I don't have the time to check current availability on any given work; and I can only hope that all of them may be found in a bookstore near you. If not, I suggest you try a good used bookstore with a strong religious stock:

Don't worry, though I may not have the funds, I do have the resources to get hold of books by protestant authors.

Originally posted by fable:
Martin Neimoller (FYI, my specific fave is "God is My Fuehrer," but as my copy's dated 1941, I suspect someone will have retitled it with something less spectacular since then), Jacob Boehme, Kaspar Schwenkfeld, A.W. Tozer, Hannah Whitall Smith, Melanchthon, Luther (obviously), Leibniz, Alan Ecclestone, Johann Arndt, William Law, John Calvin (but not too much!), Sebastian Franck, Issac Williams, John Wesley, Geoffrey Lampe.

I only recognize a few of these names, such as Luther and John Calvin. Some of those might be contemporary authors, I don't know. Have you read much by Contemporary authors? If not, I suggest you read some Chuck Swindal(sp?)(now goes by Charles) and Max Lacado. I can give you some titles of books by them when I get home. I'm in class right now so I don't have access to them. I also recommend The Oath by Frank Peretti. It's a great novel with a great lesson to be learned, if you open yourself up to let the spirit move you.

Originally posted by fable:
Note, there is a good deal of division among the doctrines expressed by these authors; but all represent very serious and distinguished Protestant authors who had a great deal to say about their religion, their God, and the way to live the religious life.

Of course there is division among them, but look back at them and I'm sure you'll see that they all agree on the important issues. I'm not going to restate those important issues because if you don't know them by now you ain't like to ever know them.

Anyway, class is over and I gotta go, but I'll be home before too long.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 10:41 am

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn:
Of course there is division among them, but look back at them and I'm sure you'll see that they all agree on the important issues. I'm not going to restate those important issues because if you don't know them by now you ain't like to ever know them.

You haven't read these authors, but you're *still* lecturing me about their content! Amazing.

"You're sure"...? Your attempt to comment upon their content hardly does you a great deal of credit. Try reading the authors, before you criticize me for discussing any points within their works, okay?

Anyway, class is over and I gotta go, but I'll be home before too long.

You're welcome. I was pleased to put together my list of faves from my collection, for someone who is both so appreciative, and so polite.

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 10:43 am

Originally posted by fable:
One more thought: please, consider that there is much to be gained from studying traditions in Christianity other than just the Protestant. If you have no liking for Roman Catholicism, try works of Eastern Orthodoxy and the so-called "Patristic Fathers" that predated the split when the Bishop of Rome decided he should king of the hill. I would especially recommend The Philokalia, an excellent three-volume compilation of early Eastern Orthodox thought, first gathered in the 18th century. The documents in it generally date from the 4th century through the 10th, and there is a great deal of practical content among much else that is theological, anecdotal or dogmatic in nature.

That has to do with church history. You know what a lot about what the church believed. However, our beliefs are not an evolution from what the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox believed, they are a revolution built upon the foundation of the Holy Bible, bypassing the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. Catholocism and Protestantism vary greatly, except on the most important issues. There are of course denominations that are somewhere in between.

Just remember that man is fallable, but God isn't. Only the Bible is 100% accurate in saying what Christians do(or should) believe. Anything in the Bible that is open to interpretation is not important enough to have been made 100% specific. However, things such as the death and resurrection of Christ, which are not open to interpretation, are specified and are what we all agree on. Note: Yes, you can interpret anything in numorous ways, but if you interpret 4+4 as 10, you're misinterpreting. If you interpret the Bible saying Christ died on the cross, then rose from the grave 3 days later in any other way, you're misinterpreting it as it is stated quite clear.

BAh, I need to leave now and I am leaving now. Sorry, Sleep, I couldn't resist responding to what fable said, even though it is continue the debate to some extent.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 10:47 am

Originally posted by fable:
You haven't read these authors, but you're *still* lecturing me about their content! Amazing. "You're sure"...? Your attempt to comment upon their content hardly does you a great deal of credit. Try reading the authors, before you criticize me for discussing any points within their works, okay?

If they're Christians, then they do believe that Christ died on the cross to take our sins away and rose from the dead 3 days later. That is the basic fundamental belief that is Christianity. It is because the Mormons and Jehovahs Witness believe differently than this that they are not Christian Denominations.

Originally posted by fable:
You're welcome. I was pleased to put together my list of faves from my collection, for someone who is both so appreciative, and so polite.

You're evil, fable.

I need to leave and go home, but you keep posting things that I have no patience to wait until I get home to replace to. Ah, but this is also why I like debating with you. Very few people are good enough at debating to keep me interested in the debate this long.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 10:56 am

*ahem* What did i just say a few minutes ago, please do not disregard my words. PM if you wish to continue this discussion.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 11:13 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep:
*ahem* What did i just say a few minutes ago, please do not disregard my words. PM if you wish to continue this discussion.

Gomen, gomen, Sleep-sama. *looks as cute as she possibly can, which is pretty darn cute, in hopes that it might make up for unintentionally disobeying orders*

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 3:31 pm

Nuts. I wanted to post, too...

Shadow Sandrock · Post by **Shadow Sandrock** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 4:06 pm

Originally posted by Gaxx_Firkraag:
Nuts. I wanted to post, too...

We miss all the fun

Anyways...

Which do you believe in, resurrection or reincarnation?

I believe in resurrection. But I wont' go into detail to prevent another debate, I just want this topic to go back to its original purpose...

*claps* GOOD ARGUMENT YOU GUYS!!!

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 4:29 pm

Originally posted by Shadow Sandrock:
I just want this topic to go back to its original purpose...

I used to think that was possible, back when I first joined. In fact, I managed to succeed in getting a topic back on track, but it didn't last long.

Shadow Sandrock · Post by **Shadow Sandrock** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 4:33 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn:
I used to think that was possible, back when I first joined. In fact, I managed to succeed in getting a topic back on track, but it didn't last long.

*Goes back in time and changes that* >=D

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 4:35 pm

Originally posted by Shadow Sandrock:
*Goes back in time and changes that* >=D

Nice try, Sandy; but you forget that I'm good friends with Sailor Pluto.

Shadow Sandrock · Post by **Shadow Sandrock** » Tue Oct 09, 2001 4:43 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn:
Nice try, Sandy; but you forget that I'm good friends with Sailor Pluto.

O_O;;

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!