Ressurection or Reincarnation?

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 7:56 pm

To die repeatedly and come back to life as the being which your karma ordained, or to die once only, be judged, and enter into immortaliy?

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 8:07 pm

IMO, neither. I beleive that when your dead, thats it, your dead. None of this reincarnation stuff, or eternal bliss/damnation. I think it is simplier than that. But, to each their own.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 8:35 pm

Why either/or? Who's to say that you don't go onto something, elsewhere, which isn't a static condition, but another step on a very long ladder? Or that there is no judgement, just acceptance and loss of individuality, or a fleeing back to reincarnation (something that Huxley postulated in his later novels)? Or that we're not simply shards of God, engaged in some cosmic game where grief and happiness are measured in terms of the knowledge gained?

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 8:42 pm

Originally posted by fable:
Why either/or?

I'm guessing that he's comparing the Hindu belief of Reincarnation with the Christian belief of Heaven.

Originally posted by fable:
Who's to say that you don't go onto something, elsewhere, which isn't a static condition, but another step on a very long ladder? Or that there is no judgement, just acceptance and loss of individuality, or a fleeing back to reincarnation (something that Huxley postulated in his later novels)?

These 'options' do not seem relevent in light of the question.

Originally posted by fable:
Or that we're not simply shards of God, engaged in some cosmic game where grief and happiness are measured in terms of the knowledge gained?

Ne? What do you mean "simply shards of God"?

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 9:06 pm

@SS: I think what Fable means is that in Christian belief (And others) We were created in Gods image, by a part of himself. Because of that, he is comparing God and man to that of a crystal that has been divided into many pieces, thus we are all, technically and spiritually speaking, a part of God. that is not my personal thoughts, as stated in my first post, but Fable does raise some good points.

When asking this question, you really can't keep it to just the two options. for instance, the Egyptians believed that life continued in the afterlife, almsot like it was just a continuation of your past life (IE// A king would remain a king, and a peasant would remain a peasant). In a a sense, it was reincarnation, but to a different degree. At the same time, people of other faiths and beliefs have different thoughts of what happen in the afterlife, that aren't as simple as reincarnation/heaven, and then there are people like me.

@Fable: About your last sentence in your post. What you described there, would that not be 'Heaven'? If what the bible states about the afterlife, how we all shall ascend (Those of true faith anyway) to the heavens above, and there we shall remain in bliss, then that is exactly what you said, only with different words.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 9:23 pm

Originally posted by Aegis:
@SS: I think what Fable means is that in Christian belief (And others) We were created in Gods image, by a part of himself. Because of that, he is comparing God and man to that of a crystal that has been divided into many pieces, thus we are all, technically and spiritually speaking, a part of God. that is not my personal thoughts, as stated in my first post, but Fable does raise some good points.

I see. That's what I thought he meant, but I wasn't sure enough of what he meant. That is a very humanistic viewpoint he's mentioning and not what Christians believe.

Originally posted by Aegis:
When asking this question, you really can't keep it to just the two options. for instance, the Egyptians believed that life continued in the afterlife, almsot like it was just a continuation of your past life (IE// A king would remain a king, and a peasant would remain a peasant). In a a sense, it was reincarnation, but to a different degree. At the same time, people of other faiths and beliefs have different thoughts of what happen in the afterlife, that aren't as simple as reincarnation/heaven, and then there are people like me.

Actually, you can. It's called specifics. EMINEM asked this question specifying these two beliefs. If he had intended to include the others, he would have.

BTW, do you know what the main difference between a Buddhist(sp?) and a Christian is?(This is not a joke, this is serious)

A Christian gets to go all the way to heaven while a Buddhist only gets to go to Nirvana(sp?)("like heaven, only more boring"~An ex-buddhist friend of mine)

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 9:38 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn:

BTW, do you know what the main difference between a Buddhist(sp?) and a Christian is?(This is not a joke, this is serious)

A Christian gets to go all the way to heaven while a Buddhist only gets to go to Nirvana(sp?)("like heaven, only more boring"~An ex-buddhist friend of mine)

I'm not an expert on Buddhism, but the little that I know of about it is that Buddha is not considered as a god. He himself made it explicit to his followers.

The religion preaches more in getting on the "Middle Path." Something like distancing oneself from "worldly things and pleasures."

I think that Nirvana would be more like a state of contentment and bliss.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 9:43 pm

Originally posted by Maharlika:
I'm not an expert on Buddhism, but the little that I know of about it is that Buddha is not considered as a god. He himself made it explicit to his followers.

The religion preaches more in getting on the "Middle Path." Something like distancing oneself from "worldly things and pleasures."

I think that Nirvana would be more like a state of contentment and bliss.

The difference is where they end up. Nirvana is a place, "like heaven only more boring." The path they are taught to follow is very similar to the ten commandments etc. of Christianity. What results in the difference is that Christians believe in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit. Buddhists don't believe in a god.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 9:50 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn:
The difference is where they end up. Nirvana is a place, "like heaven only more boring."

Well, if that's the case, I'd take heaven anytime.

You think it's "philosophically possible" to be reincarnated into a ****roach in Nirvana?

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 9:55 pm

Originally posted by Maharlika:
You think it's "philosophically possible" to be reincarnated into a ****roach in Nirvana?

*shrugs* AFAIK, that is the form one recieves upon entering Nirvana.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 11:01 pm

Sailor Saturn writes:
I see. That's what I thought he meant, but I wasn't sure enough of what he meant. That is a very humanistic viewpoint he's mentioning and not what Christians believe.

I suggest you read some of the works of Christian mystics, from Hildegard von Bingen to Teilhard de Chardin. I'm not saying that I'm a Christian--I'm not; but the perspective I voiced that you refer to has definitely been believed by some Christians who were hardly schismatic.

Aegis writes:
@Fable: About your last sentence in your post. What you described there, would that not be 'Heaven'? If what the bible states about the afterlife, how we all shall ascend (Those of true faith anyway) to the heavens above, and there we shall remain in bliss, then that is exactly what you said, only with different words.

First, the bible still sees its God as separate from the souls worshipping it, even after death; the view I expressed in that last sentence postulates each soul as an actual part of God, partaking in divinity, but after a purpose that is incomprehensible in its current condition. The bible also sees good and evil and very clear terms, and as antagonistic conditions. My statement suggests they may both be subsidiary conditions to a higher desirable condition, knowledge.

I appreciate your other comments in that post.

Mr Snow · Post by **Mr Snow** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 11:10 pm

To get back to the original question,

I personally don't believe in any "After death", but reincarnation would be preferable, but not comming back as a human again. Aminals/Plants would be the way to go IMO.

nael · Post by **nael** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 11:20 pm

reincarnation would be great ifi could come back as a male lion...spend every day just sleeping, eating, and having sex. have all the females bringing my dinner...

about buddhism - there are some odd philosophical texts out there abotu buddhism. LOTS of circular logic...you can only get to nirvana once you realize that nirvana is just an illusion and doesn't actually exist.
i am a much bigger fan of Zen Buddhism than regular ol' Buddhism.

NeKr0mAnCeR · Post by **NeKr0mAnCeR** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 11:47 pm

IMO, neither. I beleive that when your dead, thats it, your dead. None of this reincarnation stuff, or eternal bliss/damnation. I think it is simplier than that. But, to each their own.

(yes i did copy-paste it from aegis 1st post)

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 12:15 am

Originally posted by NeKr0mAnCeR:
IMO, neither. I beleive that when your dead, thats it, your dead. None of this reincarnation stuff, or eternal bliss/damnation. I think it is simplier than that. But, to each their own.

(yes i did copy-paste it from aegis 1st post)

Spammer-"plagiarizer"!!!

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 5:02 am

Originally posted by EMINEM:
To die repeatedly and come back to life as the being which your karma ordained, or to die once only, be judged, and enter into immortaliy?

Neither that this question relates to, i think that the question is too specific, do i believe in God, yes, but do i believe in the judgement etc for actions, not necessarily.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 5:52 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep:
Neither that this question relates to, i think that the question is too specific, do i believe in God, yes, but do i believe in the judgement etc for actions, not necessarily.

You don't believe in a final judgment? Why not? When you really think about it, without a final judgment of our actions here on Earth, there's no point living a good, law-abiding life or a corrupt, rule-breaking one. If our actions, whether good or bad, open or secret, have no eternal recognition and reward, why bother living self-sacrificially like Theresa when you can indulge yourself in power and pleasure like Caligula?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 7:16 am

Originally posted by EMINEM:
You don't believe in a final judgment? Why not? When you really think about it, without a final judgment of our actions here on Earth, there's no point living a good, law-abiding life or a corrupt, rule-breaking one. If our actions, whether good or bad, open or secret, have no eternal recognition and reward, why bother living self-sacrificially like Theresa when you can indulge yourself in power and pleasure like Caligula?

I feel that being good should just be inate, one shouldn't feel they have to be good so that they get to heaven, that view seems somewhat selfish and conceited. Surely one should just be good out of the kindness of their heart's not because they feel it is going to get them some reward in the afterlife.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 7:57 am

Originally posted by fable:
First, the bible still sees its God as separate from the souls worshipping it, even after death; the view I expressed in that last sentence postulates each soul as an actual part of God, partaking in divinity, but after a purpose that is incomprehensible in its current condition. The bible also sees good and evil and very clear terms, and as antagonistic conditions. My statement suggests they may both be subsidiary conditions to a higher desirable condition, knowledge.

I appreciate your other comments in that post.

I'd just like to say that what I said wasn't meant as an attack. That is just how I saw your last statment.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 8:22 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep:
I feel that being good should just be inate, one shouldn't feel they have to be good so that they get to heaven, that view seems somewhat selfish and conceited. Surely one should just be good out of the kindness of their heart's not because they feel it is going to get them some reward in the afterlife.

Actually, that is the way it is supposed to be. You don't do good so that you can go to heaven. You get to heaven by believing that Christ Jesus died on the cross for your sins. Technically, one could go out and commit mass murder, rape a whole bunch of people, and do all kinds of other sins and still go to heaven if you've accept Christ into your heart. However, if you do those things, have you really accept Christ into your heart? You do not do good so that God will love you; you do good because God loves you.

Re Judgement: Imagine yourself in a courtroom. God sits in the judges seat before you. To your left is the Prosecuting Attorney. The PA is none other than Satan himself. Satan stands before the court and proceeds to tell them each and every sin you've committed in your entire life. God looks in the book before him. "He's right," God says. "The book says you did this, this, and this." Satan speaks up again, "This man deserves none other than eternal torment in Hell." What are you going to do? If you're a Christian, then there is more to this. On the other side of the courtroom is your defense attorney. Not Muhammad, Krishna(sp?), Buddha(sp?), or any other who has succumbed to death. On the other side of the courtroom stands Jesus Christ of Nazareth. He walks up before the court and says, "I have already paid the price for this mans sins when I died on the cross at Calvary." God then looks in the book before him which now is empty. "Hmm...the blood of Jesus must of worked cause there's nothing in this book," says God. Satan starts squirming. "It's in the book!" Satan declares. "It's in the book." God says, "Oh, you must mean this other book down here," as he pulls a book out from a shelf. He sits the book down and dust flies from the cover. On it it is reads, the Lamb's Book of Life. Is your name in that book?