Evolutionary biology, Africa & OUTRAGE

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:46 pm

How have you people been? It’s been a while. I was banned multiple times within a few minutes, then had my thread deleted on the straight dope boards, the first time I went there. I have never seen SUCH NARROW THINKING on a board before; the moderators were the worst (even worse than the moderators/admin. here…)

Yes, that was meant in jest, just in case things have changed here, and ya’ll can take a joke.

I haven’t been here in months. Anything interesting happen?

Questions For The Masses

1) Primarily physiological differences or environmental factors influenced the eventual “domination” of Western Europeans. Meaning, the fact that Western Eurasians “colonized” the New World (for example), as opposed the indigenous populations of the new world conquering Europe was due primarily to racial differences, or to the environment in which the disparate people lived?

2) Also, on a similar note, where did humans come from, Africa or several locations around the globe (or Mars. I had a conversation the other night where this was “proven” to me over a few beers)? The-Out-Of-Africa hypothesis I just don’t buy, though it is increasingly being accepted. I don’t believe that the end result (read current state of affairs) could have been reached by simple migration.

I’ve been reading about the above two subjects quite a bit recently, so I hope they haven’t been discussed to death on this board, sorry if they have been. Never mind that, I’m not sorry if they have. If they have, just ignore them. Or, be like some people I could name, and flame me for being disrespectful to somebody or other, then close the thread.

So, are mine ancient enemies around?

Am on my way out the door now, as it's 7p and I have a meeting. Hopefully, you people remember me, and welcome me with open arms (in GB's case, open thighs), posts and flames...

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damn hobbit

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:56 pm

FOUL !!!!!!! *HUGS* WB Goat King !

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:00 pm

Originally posted by Witch King:
the moderators were the worst (even worse than the moderators/admin. here&#8230

-------------.-.-.-.-
damn hobbit

Wooah you're talking about some bad mods

.
Bad to the bone.

And what about the damn hobbit. Eh? Got a problem with that? Do you want me to beat you down with one?

Hey foul, anyways.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:58 pm

Originally posted by Witch King:

I was banned multiple times within a few minutes.

I see your life of crime continues....(sad sad...)

Originally posted by Witch King:

Questions For The Masses

1) Primarily physiological differences or environmental factors influenced the eventual “domination” of Western Europeans. Meaning, the fact that Western Eurasians “colonized” the New World (for example), as opposed the indigenous populations of the new world conquering Europe was due primarily to racial differences, or to the environment in which the disparate people lived?

to the environment in which the disparate people lived. (My best guess)

Originally posted by Witch King:

2) Also, on a similar note, where did humans come from, Africa or several locations around the globe (or Mars. I had a conversation the other night where this was “proven” to me over a few beers)? The-Out-Of-Africa hypothesis I just don’t buy, though it is increasingly being accepted. I don’t believe that the end result (read current state of affairs) could have been reached by simple migration.

Mars or some other planet...(or some floating space rock that happened to hit the earth) (As well my best guess)

Originally posted by Witch King:


So, are mine ancient enemies around?

The Ancient Enemy never sleeps......he just reloads his tatar gun and waits for prey..

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:17 am

Originally posted by Witch King:
I have never seen SUCH NARROW THINKING on a board before; the moderators were the worst (even worse than the moderators/admin. here&#8230

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:25 am

Now, here is another big one came back to the SYM...

I was about to order someone to hunt down Foul. So, I can have a good laugh for watching members to be flamed in the most painful way by the WitchKing.

How are you? I won't be around much from this Thursday until mid Febrary.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:35 am

Originally posted by Witch King:
Questions For The Masses

1) Primarily physiological differences or environmental factors influenced the eventual “domination” of Western Europeans. Meaning, the fact that Western Eurasians “colonized” the New World (for example), as opposed the indigenous populations of the new world conquering Europe was due primarily to racial differences, or to the environment in which the disparate people lived?

I think it is more likely that the Eurasians had better supplies of the important materials needed to colonise countries. Britain was mostly wood based so perfect for boat making etc.

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 6:33 am

Originally posted by Witch King:
How have you people been? It’s been a while. I was banned multiple times within a few minutes, then had my thread deleted on the straight dope boards, the first time I went there. I have never seen SUCH NARROW THINKING on a board before; the moderators were the worst (even worse than the moderators/admin. here…

How did you manage to be banned so often? I mean, how did you manage NOT to be banned here?

I haven’t been here in months. Anything interesting happen?

Yes, a lot. You don't want to know...

(or Mars. I had a conversation the other night where this was “proven” to me over a few beers)

What are you talking about? After a few beers, you should know men are from Mars, and women are from ...Alpha Centauri.
Or, was that somewhere else?

So, are mine ancient enemies around?

Which ancient enemies of yours?

Am on my way out the door now, as it's 7p and I have a meeting. Hopefully, you people remember me, and welcome me with open arms (in GB's case, open thighs), posts and flames...

Who could forget you?

I hope you will stay around for a while.

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Minerva ]

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:55 am

Kid###: Hey man, hope things are well with you. Never besmirch the True Name of a goat.

Thorin: Dame hobbit slew me once, a looong time ago... Are you still a greedy bastard of a dwarve?

Weasel: Wow, you're still around, I'm amazed, though obviously I shouldn't be. I didn't follow your Mars comment though...How's life with you Weasel, things pretty good?

Minerva: You are my most precious ancient enemy. Avast! Stand back, and draw thy blade!

-==-==--=-=-
damn hobbit

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:18 pm

Well, it seems you can posit a potentially controversial query without adding kindling and kerosene. I think you are a bit too nebulous on question 2 for me to address it sufficiently. ‘Out of Africa’ does not preclude the substantial additions to the genome from other parts of the globe, it merely means that the our most ancient ancestors originated there.

Question 1 I understand a bit better, and I can assure you the advantages mentioned are not racial in origin. The climate, geography, and distribution of natural resources in Europe made it a breeding ground for highly competitive peoples who found those outside this Petri dish easy pickings for colonization. To wit, the great 7, if we can use them as an example: each have a comparable yet large endowment of natural resources. I’m talking about everything from rich soil, to ore, to lumber. They also had defensible natural borders that allowed them to flourish, yet these borders were not so insurmountable that innumerable wars were not waged. This lead to an arms race of sorts unique to this area, and each of the great 7 became a formidable force by the age of exploration.

Conversely, there is simply no data other than a misinterpretation of some pretty subjective criteria to support the theory that any race posseses abilities that another does not.

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Waverly ]

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:29 pm

Originally posted by Waverly:
Well, it seem you can posit a potentially controversial query without adding kindling and kerosene...you are a bit too nebulous...

You're surprised I didn't say something like: " The Western European race is superior- and history has proven it so, and so...", aren't you? Wise ass…….

That's my perspective on question 1. I'm curious to hear the other side from a staunch supporter.

To clarify question 2 for those not well equipped (or maybe it was just muddled to begin with)-- The "Out-Of-Africa" theory to which I refer is that the ancestors of humans, some 4 million years ago, were all in Africa- and then started a migration north then east then north, and so on. I have never seen real, hard evidence to support the claim that there was a single starting place, in fact, evolutionary theory on a physiological basis refutes it thus: merely dividing a group of the same species, Cro-Magnon (1.7 mill years ago) and placing them in different geographic areas would NOT result in the racial differences we see today between Africans, Asians, Mexicans, Chileans, the French (but who can ever explain them), and so on. Is that more clear?

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:32 pm

I have nothing of merit to add to the discussion, as I would invariably get silly and bring up Stone Henge and druids

But, a big welcome back Foul!

*HUG*

Waverly: I'm not ignoring you either

*hug*

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:38 pm

Question 1 is interesting. Why did those in Europe make to the western world and not vice versa. Now I see where we can trace the roots of the fallacy of intellectual superiority.

Question 2 I believe can be traced way back to an explosion of some sort. There were many hops along the way though.

I don't believe we've ever conversed back and forth, however, I have a request. Please stop in waverly's kneel and be knighted +5 sword of flames thread. Minerva has asked I seek you out. thank you.

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:39 pm

Originally posted by Vivien:
But, a big welcome back Foul! *HUG*Waverly: I'm not ignoring you either *hug*

That is bull****. I've been gone for seven months, and Waverly and I get the same greeting.....

I suppose I'll have to be content with whatever I get....

*steps back and begins planning his revenge on waverly*

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:45 pm

Originally posted by Witch King:
That is bull****. I've been gone for seven months, and Waverly and I get the same greeting.....

I suppose I'll have to be content with whatever I get....

*steps back and begins planning his revenge on waverly*

Actually, this is my second welcoming him back...

Foul: How have you been? What is new in your life? I don't have to do this here if it's spamming up your thread.

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:55 pm

Aw, Viv, hello to you too. *grope*

Witch Fuehrer: I believe I just presented you with an explanation for the dominance of western Europe. If you would persist in believing otherwise, you should probably find some support for that stance.

You also misunderstand current out of Africa theory, confusing it with the Afrocentric version taught to school children. No, there was not a neat, uniform migration of fully adapted homo sapiens leaving Africa to make their way in the rest of the world. That our oldest ancestors lived there is not in doubt. From there, humans migrated, adapted to environs, intermixed, and migrated again. It would be impossible to say at which geographic local humans became the most like our modern iteration, but it is important to keep in mind we vary precious little from race to race. To overlook the propensity of humans to breed with anything they can get their hands on is a mistake, and this leads to a high level of homogenisis.

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:51 pm

Originally posted by Waverly:
Aw, Viv, hello to you too. *grope*

Witch Fuehrer: I believe I just presented you with an explanation for the dominance of western Europe.

You also misunderstand current out of Africa theory, confusing....

To your first point: yes. I said I agreed, not disagreed, you should probably re-read and strive for understanding this time, as opposed to having your eyes glaze over, which in turn makes nonsense babble forth from thy mouth like a river of gruntboy-esque articulations.

To your second point: no. I don't misunderstand it at all, I advise you to catch up on your reading:

Cite: Last few "Scientific Americans" & "Discovery"s.
Guns, Germs & Steel.

Vivian: *more stimulating grope* Hey there baby. My life is pretty fine about now, though the job is STRESSFUL. Been fishing lately?

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:00 pm

So as a cite, you think merely telling someone ‘oh, here and there’ is exact enough. I fail to see how this demonstrates an understanding of the material involved, particularly if you cannot paraphrase it into your own words. As I subscribe to both Scientific American and Discover magazines, I think it is safe to say you are bluffing. Rather than play semantic games with the ‘out of Africa’ phrase, why don’t you take a look at my explanation and point out errors as well as back up your contentions with some facts. You know what facts are… those pesky things that people who spout off with no knowledge of the subject at hand get smacked with.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:16 pm

Originally posted by Witch King:

Weasel: Wow, you're still around, I'm amazed, though obviously I shouldn't be. I didn't follow your Mars comment though...How's life with you Weasel, things pretty good?

-==-==--=-=-
damn hobbit

My comment goes back further than the period you are discussing. (How life got started on the earth in the first place.. Rock hits earth ripping out a piece which become the moon.)

Life is so so. The election takes most of my time nowadays.

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:32 pm

Originally posted by Witch King:

Vivian: *more stimulating grope* Hey there baby. My life is pretty fine about now, though the job is STRESSFUL. Been fishing lately?

Is it just recently stressful?

Been fishing lately? *wonders if there's a hidden message, but can't quite figure it out as she's not used to making herself read between the lines*

Either it means something about fishing for ...compliments?

Hmm....not really

I offer niceness and 'fish' look for the same

OR, you could be making conversation!

So, then I would say:
No, I haven't been fishing lately, mainly because it's cold and icy, yet not icy enough that one can drive on the ice without worrying over the cracking sounds