Sneak attack: is it worth it to invest on hide and move silently?

[GrimReaperPT]

So here's my question, I'm creating a rogue/bard/arcane archer build (a bit like this one: http://home.comcast.net/~worldofgreyhaw ... 50699.html). I'm specializing in ranged attack (I use longbow) and it's the first time I'm trying to use sneak attack. The problem is, I'm investing skill points on Hide and Move Silently and I don't really know why. Everytime I attack an enemy while I'm on stealth mode, my character automatically reveals himself and doesn't perform a sneak attack, so I assume that when you attack, the stealth mode is automatically disabled. So what exactly is stealth for? In some combat situations I can activate stealth and hide away from the enemy (and position myself behind them, so I can perform a sneak attack) while my henchman attracts attention. But this kind of ruins the whole point of using ranged attack...
Knowing this, why would I want to invest a lot of skill point on hide and move silently, if the sneak attacks don't depend on it?

[GawainBS]

IIRC, in NWN, you can (ranged) sneak attack as long as you are not the enemy's target and you're within 30 ft. Stealth helps achieving this, but this not a prerequisite.
Note that plenty of creatures in D&D are immune to sneak attacks.

[GrimReaperPT]

Can you elaborate on how stealth helps acheive this? Since it's not a prerequesite (and with my bard spells such as invisibility I can acheive almost the same) do you this it's worth it to invest skill points so I can activate stealth?

[Lemmus]

It's been a while since I've played the games, but as I recall the Hide and Move Silently (Sneak) skills are primarily used to avoid combat or to set up your tactical position. So instead of automatically entering combat as soon as the NPCs see you, you can scout the area, trap the doors, get near some cover, and engage on your own terms.

Sneak attack isn't precisely the same as sneaking around.Instead it is a special skill given to 1st level rogues allowing them to do bonus damage if they do a surprise attack. The amount of extra damage is based on the rogue level, and does NOT stack with critical damage.

From Randy Murtha's FAQ (http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/188666-never ... faqs/51549):

[INDENT=1]SNEAK ATTACK: Rogues study the weaknesses of their opponents and are[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]capable of capitalizing on this knowledge with their deadly sneak[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]attacks.[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]- Gained: 1st level[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]- Use: Automatic[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]- Bonuses: Whenever the Rogue makes a successful melee or ranged attack[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]against an opponent that is flat-footed OR cannot see the character[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1](i.e., character is in Stealth Mode, or invisible), OR has its back[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]facing the character AND the target is in combat against another[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]opponent, the Rogue's blow deals extra damage (+1d6 at 1st level, and[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]an additional +1d6 every two levels thereafter). This extra damage is[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]not multiplied in the case of a critical hit.[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]- Special: The construct and undead monster types are immune to sneak[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]attacks, as are any creatures that are immune to critical hits[/INDENT]

As for your henchman problems, this is why rogue types often play solo.

[GrimReaperPT]

Thank you, this was very helpful.
About that FAQ, where it says "OR cannot see the character (i.e., character is in Stealth Mode, or invisible)", is that information correct? Because whenever I attack with my character the game automatically disables stealth mode, so the sneak attack isn't made.

[GawainBS]

But are you close enough? Attack from stealth should trigger Sneak Attack, since you aren't a target.

[Claudius]

Flanking also works so if you have a henchman tank you can sneak in and the henchman draws the agro and then you just plink away. Works good.

Another use of sneak attack (SA) is with a shadowdancer. Then you can 'rehide' even in the middle of combat.

[GrimReaperPT]

I don't know how much 30 feet is in-game, but I guess I'm close enough...

[GawainBS]

30ft=10m= roughly 3x the lenth of your character if you're Medium size. (Human, Half-Orc, Elf, Half-Elf.)

[Pulverizer]

Thank you, this was very helpful.
About that FAQ, where it says "OR cannot see the character (i.e., character is in Stealth Mode, or invisible)", is that information correct? Because whenever I attack with my character the game automatically disables stealth mode, so the sneak attack isn't made.

Are you sure the first attack from stealth is not a sneak attack (e.g., from combat log messages), or are you assuming it isn't a sneak attack since the game breaks you out of stealth on an attack move? If the game engine is behaving correctly, that first attack while stealthed should be a sneak attack and also break stealth -- the actions appear simultaneous, but are actually performed in that order (sneak attack, followed by stealth breaking). You should see "sneak attack" mentioned in the combat logs.

[JonnTrickerfoot]

Hi there,
I have a Halfling Rogue and I can't use the sneak attack move like I saw on videos (char disappears in the shadow and attack the target). The ability is only there in my action bar, even automatic, I can't use this.
Am I doing something wrong?

[GawainBS]

Read up on the ability: the target either needs to be flatfooted (not aware of you, or disabled somehow), or you have to be flanking the target.
Being able to hide helps with targets not being aware of you.

[JonnTrickerfoot]

Read up on the ability: the target either needs to be flatfooted (not aware of you, or disabled somehow), or you have to be flanking the target.
Being able to hide helps with targets not being aware of you.

Thanks man, I will try it