World Problems

[Weasel]

In light of M&M topic *Capital Punishment* I have came up with a couple more problems to discuss.

1: abortion
2: environmental policy
3: euthinasia
4: government spending
5: misc. (you say what you want, your rant if you please)

The death penalty was in this list, (This is from another board, but I believe it's own thread is better, no reason to rehash it again here.)

Here's a couple of post from that place.(To give you an idea.)


---------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Name removed:
My views:

1: abortion
-Support it. Although I may sound cold, but the world today is no place for abandoned and unwanted children. But for those who have the ways and means to support children, no.

2: death penalty
-Support it. Especially for those who feel no remorse, and for those who commit heinous crimes against humanity. But if for petty crimes or as a weapon to cut down on crime rate/inefficient law enforcement, no.

3: environmental policy
-Support it. Conservations and safety precautions should be top priority.

4: euthinasia
-Support it, only if the victim asks for it, and agreed upon by the doctor and family members. Should not be allowed for patients who have no say or incapable to decide.

5: government spending
-No comment.

6: misc. (you say what you want)
-I'm the king of the world!!

---------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Name removed:
1: abortion
Against it. If you didnt want the baby you shouldnt of had sex. If you were raped, dont screw over the child because someone screwed you over.

2: death penalty
Support it. May sound harsh, but what goes around, comes around. ( i support this even more after that tokyo stab fest, killing 8 six-eight year olds... that guy should die)

3: environmental policy
Try to help the environment. They gave, we took, we never gave back. Environmentalists can really piss me off sometimes though. . .

4: euthinasia
This is kinda hard...

5: government spending
Government should spend their money on me.

6: misc. (you say what you want)
"When the world turns it's back on you, you turn your back on the world" . . . (Timon for the lion king. . .)

---------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Name removed:


1. I'm pro-choice. Shouldn't outlaw something unless the entire (or almost) population thinks it should be outlawed.

2. I'm for the death penalty for murderers, rapists and tax collecters.

3. I'm for a strong environmental policy to keep the earth and ocean clean (Where the f*** is that car that can get 100 miles per gallon?).

4. If someone wants to die, I say let a doctor help them.

5. The Government spends too damned much. How would I limit it? I'd wipe the government beaucracy clean of needless desk employees, execute every convict currently serving a life sentence, give no social security money to anyone found guilty of a drug offense, and stop pandering to massive companies (who really run the USA).

6. (Oh boy, it's ranting time )

-In the USA, the 2 party system is bull****. It makes it impossible to win the presidency unless you're a republican or democrat.

-I hate that 14 year olds can compete in the olympics. LET THEM GET A CHILDHOOD FOR GOD's SAKE!

-It's estimated that about 1/3 of the population of the US smokes weed illegaly. If that many people want to smoke it, legalise it. Isn't government suposed to be there to reflect the will of the people? It's no different than prohabition of alcohol in the 1920s. Look how poorly that turned out.

-Gas prices have been too freaking high lately. Damn you, OPEC! (No offense to anyone fron a opec country I know it isn't just opec, but the f-ing greedy oil companies too.)

-Make the drinking age 18. If some kid can get drafted for war, he should be able to get drunk the night before.

-People in cities should stop smoking so much crack.

-I'm sick and tired of the 5 day work week. From now on, Fridays should be considered weekends.

-Lose circuses. I hate clowns. Animals are treated poorly. Get the freaks some real jobs.

-From now on, any oil company responsible for a oil spill should have to provide gasoline to the public for 50 cents/ gallon for a week. That'll teach them to be more careful.

-Food in movie theaters costs too damned much.

(I think that's about it. If I think of anything else to complain about, I'll get back to you)

Please no flaming, we are a civilied board I believe and can respect other's views while disagreeing with it.


Some spamming allowed, lets try to keep it light as possible.

[scully1]

"The world today is no plave for abandoned and unwanted children."

So we should just destroy the abandoned and unwanted, instead of finding a way to care for them?

[fable]

Loner writes:
So we should just destroy the abandoned and unwanted, instead of finding a way to care for them?

I didn't get that out of what you quoted, @Loner. I got the sense, instead, that it is a terrible thing to create children who will be ignored, uncared for, abused, and/or abandoned. Coming from an abused background myself, I can really relate to the comment you quoted.

[leedogg]

oh weaesel you really asked for it on this one!:O civilized board? here?

i'll have to think on this one.

[scully1]

@fable: I just don't think it makes any sense to say that human life should be terminated in order to avoid suffering. Efforts must be made to cease/alleviate the suffering, absolutely -- aside from simply eliminating the life form. As far as I see it, that's like punishing the victim. Terminating a life for someone else's crime?...Doesn't make sense.

I think we can and should find more life-affirming solutions to care for the abused, neglected chldren (and adults) in this world. That's all I'm saying.

[KidD01]

1: abortion
-Got a 50-50 thingy here. First of all children are the gift of God. But if this was caused by raping then it depends on the mother to decide. Also if the fetus have uncurable disease, it's all up to the parents (it means both hubby and wife must agree on something here !) Any other excuse than that looks kinda lame.

2: death penalty
-I can say "Hell Yeah !" This penalty rarely given to those badd arses unless they gonna really too far. So kill those extreme outlaws without prejudice !

3: environmental policy
-Unless you want to have trash near you & your neighboorhood or breathe some toxic things then you must support this one !

4: euthinasia
-tough call here, after all life is the gift of God. But if you're very poor and your family member become those cucumbers it's all up to you to decide.

5: government spending
-Fack those goverment spenders ! My government never good on those things, they only filling their pocket with that money....And hell yeah I know how it's done since I've saw those things !

6: misc. (you say what you want)
-simple ! Spam till yee drop !

[Weasel]

1: abortion

My thoughts go to the why? Why do you want one? Is it because of a rape? I would have to say yes to this one on this account.Child will be born with irrcurable diease, yes again. Girl get's *knocked up* and doesn't want the responisblity, no. 9 months of her time against a life of a child. As for the *too many people* some need to be aborted, the earth can only hold so much before it takes measures to remedy the problem, and it will.


2: death penalty


I have stated my opinion, revamp the system to make it better.


3: environmental policy


If the US is going to sign an agreement, all need to or it's just another document meaning little or nothing. Till this happens, I will not support any policy or treaty.

4: euthinasia

My grandmother suffered 6 months in a hospital, with the Doc's telling my family it would get worst. She died in the end, died without help from the Doc's or my family. Did I tell my mother to let the Doc,s help her? No, it's her mother, her choose. Would I, in my mother's place have did it different? No I don't believe I would have. So I said it should be left up to the family to decide.


5: government spending

Till the people of a country decide to stand up and not take the waste the government does, this will continue. "A small pebble falling down the side of a mountain will do little damage, till it hits a bigger pebble and causes a chain reation."

6: misc. (you say what you want)

No Rant at this time.

[TheDude]

since i'm posting 'a lot' of serious post this day i think i can do this one too

1: abortion:
i think it is your one stupid mistake if u need it, but i have notthing against it.

2 eath penalty:

I can say "Hell Yeah !"

i can't agree more, it is to bad the don't have a Death Penalty in our country i mean this really.

3: euthinasia:
this is a great point of discussion in my country but i don't get it when people don't want to live on, just don't let them suffer anymore and give them there rest in pace (wow that's latin , had to do some spam sorry )

4: government spending:
Those are always wrong but if u think of it they are also only human and they can't make sure all the people are happy.
there are always people like me who are never happy

5: misc:
i think a real big problem is the second phase in school HATE IT!!!(i don't know if it also in other countries but here in Holland it is every's students nightmare)

(ok enough of this back to spam! )

[leedogg]

abortion

Pro-choice, but, if you do it, you will regret it. there are circumstances that can contribute:health, rape, incest(sad but true), age. i personally feel there is a definate time frame for this option though(9 weeks IMO). if you do it, you have to do it before the fetus(?) has developed organs and such. there will be people who say "it's a human being", and thats there right, but if that were the case, every egg that leaves the ovaries should be considered a "human being". again, i'm not a fan of abortion, but i don't feel i have the right to decide for anyone other that me. IMHO.

Environmental policy-

As an oil and gas industry worker, i have to say that the environment is our first priority. believe it or not they fine the operators(up to $25,000) now along with the company(just imagine)! accidents happen, it's part of life. i can say the fines the MMS(Mineral Management Service, or what we call "the offshore police") hand out are very severe fines(on top of the clean up costs). i could go on forever(boring you all to death), but i won't. BOTTOMLINE environment is very important.

euthinasia

i don't know bout this one! but if i was suffering(just waiting to die) i'd want somebody to do me in.

Government spending

who in the world is for this!(besides politicians)

misc.

people who have 16 kids and live on welfare becuase it pays better than an actual job!

women who have never driven anything but a Honda Civic, then go out and buy an Excusion(then drive it like a Civic!) this go's for guys too (but where i live most guys already drive a large truck)

[ 06-14-2001: Message edited by: leedogg ]

[fable]

You know, it may help if we could arrive at a single definition of what constitutes "big government," or, barring that, at least get separate definitions of it from all of us.

[C Elegans]

1. abortion

I'm generally pro free abortion. Certainly not to be used as an anti conception method, but to prevent both parents and children. Sexual abuse, health issues, concern for not being able to take care of the child etc are all legit reasons for an abortion IMO. Have you ever heard of diseases like for instance Rhett's syndrome? Personally, I would not recommend any parent to give birth to a child with that kind of painful, severly disabling and within a few years leathal, disease.

In Sweden, most people are pro choice, but when there are debates about abortion issues, pro lifers often argue that "it's a life" or "it's a human life". I have difficulties understanding these views since
A. life does not start with the conception of a human embryo, life is everything that has a metabolism and starts somewhere between virus and bacteria.
B. it's a human life, but we can also argue that every human cell is human life.

But this is only the Swedish debate, other and better arguments or views might be debated where you all live.

A question to pro lifers: How do you view the post coital anti conception pills? In Sweden they are called "the day after pills", and they can be used very early in the pregnancy, ie the first days or weeks.


2. environmental policy

How could anyone possibly not support it? It should be a primary priority for every individual and nation. It's a global problem and should be handled both on a regional and global level. For instanced, I think international organasations like the G8, UN and World bank should give more financial support to areas where environmental concern has low priority or is impossible due to the financial situation.


3.euthinasia

I suppose you mean euthanasia. This is a very difficult question. Theoretically I'm all for it, but of course I realise it could be misused for finacial reasons like not trying expensive treatments with low success rate on an elderly patient suffering from a very severe, painful and incurable condition. There is a hot debate in Sweden about this right now, and we very much use Holland as an example.
Personally, I think it's very difficult to answer that question when you are fairly young and healthy. As I am now, I imagine I would rather die that have this or that condition, but I don't know...life values change a lot when people are struck by accident or disease.


4. government spending

I'm not even going to comment on this. I live in the country with the highest taxes in the world, still Sweden is just sinking lower and lower on ratings of social welfare, education, care of children, elderly and challenged, not to mention the public health care.


5. misc.

Many people would benefit from a broader perspective, both globally and historically. We humans tend to be very egocentric, very self focused and care only for our own personal little parts of the world. So, look around more

[TheDeacon]

1. Abortion
I always consider the alternative. What will come of a child that is brought up in this world unwanted and unloved? By introducing abortion you have a choice.
Of course there must be rules. There must be a maximum time till when an abortion can be performed. After a certain number of weeks it is dangerous for the mother and the life you carry is an such an evovled state that it will survive outside.

2. Death penalty
For it. What is the use of sentencing a guy like McVeigh for life? What good can come of that? On the other hand it is cruel to let a guy sit on death row for over ten years waiting for his sentencing.

3. Environmental policy
That was the subject of my thesis, so I could write for hours on this subject. In short it comes down to this:
- Oil, we have about 45 years left
- Gas, 90 years
In 10 years time the oilprices will quadrupple. The problem of fuelconsumption in cars will lift itself.(see [url="http://www.hubbertpeak.com"]Hubbertpeak[/url] for more info on this subject)
The greatest risks are also not (in contrast to general believes) in th e Western countries, but in China and India. Especially China will experience a growth in power consumption that outranks every other environmental problem.

The other points I will shed my light on later. Now I have to get back to work.

[Garcia]

Let's hope that you get this one and your/my mail is in order again

1: abortion: legal, no need to put children to this world if they can't be granted a decent life. Why some people see it as killing and being cruel I will never understand.

2. Environmental policy: not really bush's strong side. Environmental policies does not work sh*t if not all participates in a common law and policy concerned what is legal and what there has to be done in the different situations. Pollution knows no borders it is one globe and or pollution is your pollution.

3. euthinasia: in very bad cases yes. it's better for the person and for the relatives.

4. Government spending: well as the lame accountant I am, I could go on from now till Christmas but I won't (thank me later )
Short version: where do they go?
I believe that we could say that Denmark is the worst country when I comes to taxes weather they are direct or indirect. A good friend of mine has a good (read really good) salary and when he has paid all his taxes, what he has left is 32,4% of his official salary...this is NOT socialism this is freaking communism!
Well with all these taxes that people pay so they can hardly breath, one should think that there should be a lot of great benefits and what do they give us:
Hospitals: waitinglists for operations (you may not know of waitinglists at hospital, but here it can easily be 6 month)
Consumer payment: we have to pay for the dentist (those guys are NOT cheap you know, they go "open wide, thank you that will be $100)
and because of the watinglist many pays for a private hospital (those guys are not cheap you know they go "say AHHHHH, thank you that will be $200)
water, heat and electricity (the state/government happens to have monopol on this marked by the way) is getting so expensive that many average families have to move from there home because they can no more effort living there.
And please don't anyone give me any solidarity crap I am sick and tired of socialistic solidarity. People should be in control of there own life and should not be treated the same, why? Because we are not the same!
If people earn more than others do there is a reason for that, they have worked harder studied more and they in my eyes deserve a medal and that medal is in form of a higher salary.
There are some weak elements in society that need help and of course there should be taken good care of them who are less fortunate.
A country I admirer for that is Germany they don't pay THAT much tax and still they manage to have a social security net. In Denmark you can easily live on the social security net in fact you can get more money than by working this way sometimes (sick sad world).
Bill Clinton once said a good thing (believe it or not) "welfare support is not a way of living but a second chance" and he is so right.
And now for the long version......
Just kidding

misc:
puueewww! I just ripped one and my office stinks like hell (or worse)

[Garcia]

just forget the first line it is the beginning of a mail for my girlfriend, how it ended up there I don't know
sorry

[Weasel]

Originally posted by fable:
<STRONG>You know, it may help if we could arrive at a single definition of what constitutes "big government," or, barring that, at least get separate definitions of it from all of us.</STRONG>

I will give my meaning on government spending.

In Louisanna on Interstate 10, you can see one after the other of off ramps/ on ramps. They lead off the interstate 40 to 50 feet and end. They are blocked because for some reason where they decided to build them there is no roads to even get off to. The only thing I can figure is the state had so much money left from the budget, they needed to get rid of it for next years budget.

5 years ago I had to take a test in a little town called Brousard , on the other side of New Orleans. I take the test and they hand me a map to head to Venius,LA , it's back the otherway I came and way down below New Orleans (Almost to the tip of the Mississppi River). Well this map was a *short cut* to get back there without going thru New Orleans. I follow the directions and get on a 4 lane looking Interstate Highway, grass all cut nice. I travel about 30 to 35 miles, not seeing another car, and come upon a forest. That's right a forest right smack in the front of this *highway* . I assume they ran out of money and could not finish it, so I take the detour. Twenty miles of backroad dirtroad hell later, I arrive at a two lane road which takes me to one more road, which gets me where I'm going. Now my thoughts were, why do they have offramps/on ramps built going nowhere, when they could have took this money and finished this road.

[Garcia]

Originally posted by Weasel:
<STRONG>I will give my meaning on government spending.

In Louisanna on Interstate 10, you can see one after the other of off ramps/ on ramps. They lead off the interstate 40 to 50 feet and end. They are blocked because for some reason where they decided to build them there is no roads to even get off to. The only thing I can figure is the state had so much money left from the budget, they needed to get rid of it for next years budget.

5 years ago I had to take a test in a little town called Brousard , on the other side of New Orleans. I take the test and they hand me a map to head to Venius,LA , it's back the otherway I came and way down below New Orleans (Almost to the tip of the Mississppi River). Well this map was a *short cut* to get back there without going thru New Orleans. I follow the directions and get on a 4 lane looking Interstate Highway, grass all cut nice. I travel about 30 to 35 miles, not seeing another car, and come upon a forest. That's right a forest right smack in the front of this *highway* . I assume they ran out of money and could not finish it, so I take the detour. Twenty miles of backroad dirtroad hell later, I arrive at a two lane road which takes me to one more road, which gets me where I'm going. Now my thoughts were, why do they have offramps/on ramps built going nowhere, when they could have took this money and finished this road.</STRONG>

politics my good wealsel
we have a situation like it here in the other end of Denmark from were I live there was a big bridge build between two big parts of Denmark. fine with me good infastrukctuer and so but just to make us shut up in the other end (because we wont be using th bridge as much as they will of course) the gave us a nice new superhighway I think I once or maby twice saw a car on it I am not sure. we have no need for it but that is politics for you.

[Xandax]

Ad abortion)
I pro-choice, and most generally because I belive it is every mans right to choose for him (well, her in this case) self.
And as already said previously, the world is bad enough without adding unwanted children into it - yeah, people could stop having sex, but what are the chances of that happening.

Ad eviomentialism )
It is everybodys buisness to stop pollution, one can't ignore the fact that others contries pollute.
I do however have absolutly no respect for people running around and destroying others property because they think it will help against pollution. These people need to look at society and use the gamerules available to them. The reason why many people are against some evoimentialists are because they think themself above then law and use vadalism and threaths to reach their goal.

Ad euthanasia(sp?)
well again I'm pro peoples own choice. If somebody dosen't want to live, well then that person should be able to choose to die. It is not for others to choose what is best for people.

Ad death penalty)
again I'm for death penalty - but my reasons are less humane than many others.
I don't actaully care if it is considered revenge - but I don't want killers running around.
If somebody killed somebody close to me - I would want that killer dead, even if I was considered a killer to.
Also there is the economical consideration, I don't want to support hard criminals on my taxes.
(of course - the death penalty should IMO only be used in crimes involving murderes.)

ad goverment spending)
well I gotta agree with Garcia, but hey, we come from the same country.
The taxes in Denmark is high, plus there is VAT, green taxes and many more.

We even have a tax that taxes people because they own a piece of property.
These people are taxed if this property increases its value even if they don't sell it, and when/if they sell it - they are taxed yet again for the sale

Ad other kinds of ranting)
Well there is so much I don't even want to start

[Garcia]

Originally posted by Xandax:
<STRONG>Ad abortion)
yeah, people could stop having sex, but what are the chances of that happening.

</STRONG>

slim to none

ahhh yes the nice added tax on a little 25% the highest in the world and the tax and rent of own property how could I forget, thanx Xandax

most people here are like Xandax and I but I faile to understand that people here complaine about taxes but all that happens is the they get higher??? something is wrong

[Xandax]

Originally posted by Garcia:
<STRONG><snip>ahhh yes the nice added tax on a little 25% the highest in the world and the tax and rent of own property how could I forget, thanx Xandax
<snip>
</STRONG>

Not a problem, I can still remember some economic theories from university (damned I need to drink a lot more then )

I can't belive how the taxes still can increase here in Denmark.

[Garcia]

Originally posted by Xandax:
<STRONG>Not a problem, I can still remember some economic theories from university (damned I need to drink a lot more then )

I can't belive how the taxes still can increase here in Denmark.</STRONG>

soon we will have to pay more than 100%

"that will be $3000 in tax this month"
"but...but´...I only make $2000 a month"
"don't give me that old story I heard it a million times we are running a socialistic solidaric community here and you should pay with a smile!"