Melee dps other than monk

[ushsta]

I did the Ice Troll lodge in MOTB on my monk and had the floor sterilized with my character by the Sergei character (a weapon master) wielding a strange falchion. That gave me an idea. While monk is probably the best combo of of defense/melee dps I am thinking that it's possible that a dual wielding fighter and/or ranger (or combo thereof) + weapon master dual wielding either scimitars or, more interestingly, falchions could achieve much greater dps than a monk. They would probably be a glass cannon as a result but who knows. Anyone ever tried something like this?

[Scottg]

I did the Ice Troll lodge in MOTB on my monk and had the floor sterilized with my character by the Sergei character (a weapon master) wielding a strange falchion. That gave me an idea. While monk is probably the best combo of of defense/melee dps I am thinking that it's possible that a dual wielding fighter and/or ranger (or combo thereof) + weapon master dual wielding either scimitars or, more interestingly, falchions could achieve much greater dps than a monk. They would probably be a glass cannon as a result but who knows. Anyone ever tried something like this?

Were you using Knockdown?

Were you well equipped? (..including strength modifier belt, Wisdom modifier amulet, and enhancement to gloves?)

Honestly, it shouldn't have been that difficult. The ice bath challenge is the only thing you should have failed.

(..btw, the flachion only provides sneak attack damage to spirits - i.e. "spirit ruin".)



Anyway - I found this fight exceedingly easy with this build:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/never ... 18176.html

[koz-ivan]

That gave me an idea. While monk is probably the best combo of of defense/melee dps I am thinking that it's possible that a dual wielding fighter and/or ranger (or combo thereof) + weapon master dual wielding either scimitars or, more interestingly, falchions could achieve much greater dps than a monk. They would probably be a glass cannon as a result but who knows. Anyone ever tried something like this?

while a falchion wielding weapon master can be a thing of beauty, i'd not recommend dual wielding them.

why?:
1. monkey grip is yet another feat on top of all the wm requirements, two weapon fighting feats *and* power attack / cleave / great cleave.
2. if you want to dual wield - kurikis are actually the way to go, minimal offhand weapon penalties, same wide critical range, similar weapon damage.
3. the mathematics of damage - when wielding a two handed weapon (using 2 hands) your str bonus damage is multiplied by 150% - when using them 1 handed you only get your str bonus w/ the primary hand, and only 50% of your str bonus w/ the off hand.

--

my preferred build for a weapon master is fairly simple:
stats - high strength + int & dex 14 with at least some points in con as well.

start w/ fighter levels & fill all the wm requirements, from there move into wm 7 then grab frenzied berserker levels - free toughness & supreme cleave are pretty decent on their own, the improvements to power attack are pretty decent as well. (5 levels)

at that point you should be in the lv 18-20 range, and can mix in 1 other class and about 10 levels.

[Scottg]

I am thinking that it's possible that a dual wielding fighter and/or ranger (or combo thereof) + weapon master dual wielding either scimitars or, more interestingly, falchions could achieve much greater dps than a monk. They would probably be a glass cannon as a result but who knows. Anyone ever tried something like this?

I just finished this build in response to this..

http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/never ... 18764.html


It could be configured for dual-wielding Kurkris - dropping the "disarms" and two epic feats (..for your dual-wielding feats).

[ushsta]

Actually I was thinking that mixing ranger and fighter levels it would be possible to put together enough feats for a weapon master and get all the wm prereqs and the free dw feats without a large stat outlay. There is a bunch of excellent falchions in the game with stats designed for big crits. Why rapiers in that build, are they better than scimitars?

Incidentally, I had pretty top notch equipment in that fight but the dps was simply no there to finish him during knockdown. The gloves were the 70k pair I got from a merchant in mulsantir. His crit range against me was 90-150 as far as damage, it was insane. If a wm could crit for 70 with the frequency permitted by dual wielding falchions it would make things interesting.

[Scottg]

Actually I was thinking that mixing ranger and fighter levels it would be possible to put together enough feats for a weapon master and get all the wm prereqs and the free dw feats without a large stat outlay. There is a bunch of excellent falchions in the game with stats designed for big crits. Why rapiers in that build, are they better than scimitars?

Incidentally, I had pretty top notch equipment in that fight but the dps was simply no there to finish him during knockdown. The gloves were the 70k pair I got from a merchant in mulsantir. His crit range against me was 90-150 as far as damage, it was insane. If a wm could crit for 70 with the frequency permitted by dual wielding falchions it would make things interesting.

If you had your Wisdom boosted, did you try Stunning Fist in combination with Knockdown?

BTW, there was a blue diamond in the starting burrow. You could have used that to craft immunity to critical hits into your robes.


As koz-ivan mentioned, wielding 2 two-handed weapons (flachions in this case) results in some pretty significant penalties to attack numbers - specifically with Two-Weapon Fighting it results in -6 and -6, whereas dual-wielding Kukris results in -2 and -2.

I used Rapier in that build because it's the largest weapon you can use with Weapon Finesse, which means it's also the largest weapon you can use with Insightful Strike. I wouldn't recommend dual-wielding Rapiers as it will result in -4 and -4. If you are going to dual wield then you should use Kukris.

Using the class Ranger for dual-wielding takes up quite a lot of Ranger levels AND requires the use of no armor or light armor. The primary benefit is that you don't have to meet the dexterity requirements for the Two-Weapon Fighting feats, so you can focus on Strength instead. Of course if you are focusing on Strength and only have light armor available your AC is going to suffer a bit.

For the Ranger I think it's a matter of how many levels you want to spend on the class.. 6 or 11 or 21? 6 gets you 2 extra attacks, 11 gets you 3. 21 gets your full bab attack progression. Considering that each additional attack has a -5 attack penalty I think that 6 levels is the "sweet spot". Note that this isn't as good as a Monk's Greater Flurry.

BTW, the "Swordsman" build would simply disarm Sergei and pick-up his weapon.

[Scottg]

I just tested out a Ranger 6/ Fighter 14/ Weapon Master 7/ Frenzied Berserker 3 dual-wielding Falchions..

http://nwn2db.com/build.php?id=54635&version=1

Note that it doesn't work as well as seen here (as noted by bob).

[Scottg]

Here is something far more "brutal"..

Test 2 | NWN2 Character Builder

[ushsta]

Nice builds. I was thinking of trying out a scythe. You think the is competetive with a monk dps-wise? A fighter can't hold a candle to them as far as defense.

Also, do these builds take into account greater heroism and other such nice buffs?

[Scottg]

Nice builds. I was thinking of trying out a scythe. You think the is competetive with a monk dps-wise? A fighter can't hold a candle to them as far as defense.

Also, do these builds take into account greater heroism and other such nice buffs?

No, it's not competitive. It's all offense and it relies on criticals for its big damage attack.

Using enchanted robes/armor with immunity to criticals and the damage while good, is far less impressive. The spell Living Undeath also provides immunity to this. Basically a well done Sacred Fist build will "wipe the floor" with any melee build with only a few spell buffs and sacred flames.

No, Greater Heroism adds still more bonuses to attack..

[Scottg]

Here is a Sacred Fist build:

Warrior Monk | NWN2 Character Builder

[Claudius]

Fighter 12 Red Dragon Disciple 10 Bard 1 Weapon Master 7. No dual wield. Tower shield and scimitar.