"To go boldly" --- Enterprise discussion!

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 8:22 pm

@SS: I know stuff about the Galaxy-X and stuff like that from the games I play, the source books I own (and that my friends own) and just paying real close attention to the story line. Anyway, the Galaxy X that was seen in the Series finale of TNG was one from an alternate future, granted, but thats not to say it wasn't being developed at the time. The Galaxy was actually planned to be modified after the original Dominion threat, but was never implimented during the war. Also, the third Naecel was not meant for faster warp (As warp above nine is the folding of space, and therefore as fast as you can get) it was meant for faster impulse speeds, and more manouevriblity. It wouldn't disrupt the warp field, because if you look at the Constellation class, that had four, and would be able to go to warp.

For the cloaking, the reasons the Federation didn't use them were actually a mix of both reasons, yours and mine, but Star Fleet didn't officially ban them until the Pegasus dissappeared. They gave up on it because the Romulans wouldn't share the technology, and they were having one hell of a time trying to figure it out.

Now, about the Defiant. You are only partly right about it. It was designed to fight the Borg, but no working prototype was ever developed because the Borg threat ended. It wasn't until the Dominion had been discovered that the plans were taken out, and completed, with the help of Sisco at Utopia Planetia in the early days of the war. During the war itself, only four Defiant class ships were made. The NX-6401 Defiant, the NCC-6402 Reliant, the NCC-6403 (Can't recall the name), and the NCC-6404 Sal Paula, later renamed the Defiant by special order from Star Fleet, giving Sisco the choice to rename it. For those who don't know, the NX Defiant had been destroyed when the Breen entered the war.

The reason the Federation never pursued the development of the Defiant after the Borg threat ended was because they are not a war-like race, and felt no need to make a ship designed solely for war.

Little known fact, though, that is not in the Shows. In 2389, the Borg to commit a full scale invasion of the Alpha Quadrant. The federation breaks the Temporal Prime Directive by using a Welland Class ship, named the Premonition, to go back and warn the Federation mere days before it begins. It's kind've cool, because in this future, Vulcan, Qo'nos, and Earth are all assimilated planets. Anyway, during that time, the Akira class, Defiant class, and Sovereign class go into mass production, and form the fighting line against the borg. At this time, the Romulans have developed a working Phase Cloaking device, and the Klignons are consumed in a Civil War with the remnants of the Duras family, namly Toril who Work had spared years before. ST history is really neat, and some of you should read it. It's rather enjoyable.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 9:13 pm

Originally posted by Aegis:
@SS: I know stuff about the Galaxy-X and stuff like that from the games I play, the source books I own (and that my friends own) and just paying real close attention to the story line. Anyway, the Galaxy X that was seen in the Series finale of TNG was one from an alternate future, granted, but thats not to say it wasn't being developed at the time. The Galaxy was actually planned to be modified after the original Dominion threat, but was never implimented during the war. Also, the third Naecel was not meant for faster warp (As warp above nine is the folding of space, and therefore as fast as you can get) it was meant for faster impulse speeds, and more manouevriblity. It wouldn't disrupt the warp field, because if you look at the Constellation class, that had four, and would be able to go to warp.

Four nacelles doesn't disrupt the warp field, but three do if not properly aligned. There is a symmetry that has to be maintained.

Originally posted by Aegis:
For the cloaking, the reasons the Federation didn't use them were actually a mix of both reasons, yours and mine, but Star Fleet didn't officially ban them until the Pegasus dissappeared. They gave up on it because the Romulans wouldn't share the technology, and they were having one hell of a time trying to figure it out.

I'm not too sure I'd want the Romulan technology for the phase/cloaking device, if you recall the ep of TNG where Geordi and Laren got cloaked/phased. *snickers* The Federation actually had, at least during the TNG series, better luck in combining Cloaking and Phasing technology than the Romulans did. The Pegasus incident happened because the crew that was still on board/alive after Riker and that Captain escaped the ship were unable to operate it correctly for some reason of which I do not recall. The Enterprise crew, however, successfully used the cloak/phase device to escape the astroid.

Originally posted by Aegis:
Now, about the Defiant. You are only partly right about it. It was designed to fight the Borg, but no working prototype was ever developed because the Borg threat ended. It wasn't until the Dominion had been discovered that the plans were taken out, and completed, with the help of Sisco at Utopia Planetia in the early days of the war. During the war itself, only four Defiant class ships were made. The NX-6401 Defiant, the NCC-6402 Reliant, the NCC-6403 (Can't recall the name), and the NCC-6404 Sal Paula, later renamed the Defiant by special order from Star Fleet, giving Sisco the choice to rename it. For those who don't know, the NX Defiant had been destroyed when the Breen entered the war.

I could not remember for sure if they had built the Defiant before the Dominion threat or not. The Reliant was in one of Shatner's novels. The one that took place after Ashes of Eden. There were three novels. Ashes of Eden, which took place post-ST6. Then the book that had the Reliant. That one took place post-Generations and pre-First Contact. After that was another book that took place post-First Contact and pre-Insurrection.

Originally posted by Aegis:
The reason the Federation never pursued the development of the Defiant after the Borg threat ended was because they are not a war-like race, and felt no need to make a ship designed solely for war.

In the episode in which Ben was given the Defiant to command, they explain that it was not put into production because the Borg threat had ended and a Federation ship with a cloaking device was in violation of the Romulan-Federation Peace Treaty.

Originally posted by Aegis:
Little known fact, though, that is not in the Shows. In 2389, the Borg to commit a full scale invasion of the Alpha Quadrant. The federation breaks the Temporal Prime Directive by using a Welland Class ship, named the Premonition, to go back and warn the Federation mere days before it begins. It's kind've cool, because in this future, Vulcan, Qo'nos, and Earth are all assimilated planets. Anyway, during that time, the Akira class, Defiant class, and Sovereign class go into mass production, and form the fighting line against the borg. At this time, the Romulans have developed a working Phase Cloaking device, and the Klignons are consumed in a Civil War with the remnants of the Duras family, namly Toril who Work had spared years before. ST history is really neat, and some of you should read it. It's rather enjoyable.

That is interesting, though not the least bit surprising. Also, I assume you mean "Worf" not "Work."

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 8:44 am

@SS: Actual, Shatner's novels don't follow the story line quite correctly. The USS Reliant was the Defiant class piloted by Red Squad when they dissappeared in Dominion space, trying to destroy that big Jem H'adar war ship. They later reapeared, but the ship was destroyed, and Red Sqaud killed, except one. Also, I believe, in Shatners books, doesn't he also rename the thing the "Enterprise" for a bit?

The original Defiant plans did not include the cloaking device, which is quite contrary to popular belief. The Romulans offered the device to the Federation in good spirits, because the Federation would neep all the help they could get, and the Romulans didn't want to officially fight the Dominion until they needed to. This was there way of shaking off responsibilty. Also, I beleieve I mentioned that the project was concelled after the Borg Threat ended, but later restored because of the Dominion threat, and the need for a war ship.

The cloaking, when I say the Federation had a hard time figuring it out, reacted violently with the Pegasus' core. That is the reason they uncloaked halfway through an astroid. When the Enterprise installed it, and used it to escape, they had similar problems, but because they only used it for a shortend amount of time, they did not have the problems on a similar scale.

And yes, I did mean to write "Worf" and not Work.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 8:53 am

Originally posted by Aegis:
@SS: Actual, Shatner's novels don't follow the story line quite correctly. The USS Reliant was the Defiant class piloted by Red Squad when they dissappeared in Dominion space, trying to destroy that big Jem H'adar war ship. They later reapeared, but the ship was destroyed, and Red Sqaud killed, except one. Also, I believe, in Shatners books, doesn't he also rename the thing the "Enterprise" for a bit?

Yes, he did rename it Enterprise in honor of Captain Picard and Captain Kirk who were using it in their attack against the Borg. I don't doubt the he didn't follow the storyline exactly, but my guess is that when he wrote the book the Reliant hadn't been destroyed yet.

Originally posted by Aegis:
The original Defiant plans did not include the cloaking device, which is quite contrary to popular belief. The Romulans offered the device to the Federation in good spirits, because the Federation would neep all the help they could get, and the Romulans didn't want to officially fight the Dominion until they needed to. This was there way of shaking off responsibilty. Also, I beleieve I mentioned that the project was concelled after the Borg Threat ended, but later restored because of the Dominion threat, and the need for a war ship.

Hm...well, I've merely told you what Ben and Miles(I think it was them) discussed when they first recieved the Defiant at Deep Space 9.

Originally posted by Aegis:
The cloaking, when I say the Federation had a hard time figuring it out, reacted violently with the Pegasus' core. That is the reason they uncloaked halfway through an astroid. When the Enterprise installed it, and used it to escape, they had similar problems, but because they only used it for a shortend amount of time, they did not have the problems on a similar scale.

Having been testing the thing before the mutiny on the Pegasus, the crew knew it wasn't totally compatible with their systems and used it irresponsibly, or so the Pegasus' Captain said.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 9:03 am

Exactly. The Cloaking didn't work because no one could figure the thing out, so the crew never bothered to try.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 1:23 pm

Originally posted by Aegis:
Exactly. The Cloaking didn't work because no one could figure the thing out, so the crew never bothered to try.

They're doing a TNG Marathon this week on TNN. Friday at 3PM (EST & PST), the episode The Pegasus is showing.

*grr* Tomorrow morning they're showing Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, Final Frontier, and Wrath of Khan. Yes, they're showing WoK twice. They're leaving out the best ones, imo. They should also show Star Trek The Motion Picture, Journey Home, and Undiscovered Country; but they're not.

What it looks like they're doing with the Marathon is showing the TNG eps from beginning(Encounter At Farpoint Parts I & II) on Monday and going all the way through(skipping some eps) to the end(All Good Things...) on Saturday(at 2AM EST & PST).

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 2:23 pm

Hmm, well I could say geeks...

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 2:26 pm

Originally posted by Nippy:
Hmm, well I could say geeks...

Did someone say geeks?!?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 2:34 pm

Possibly, maybe if we are quiet for a second...

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 3:23 pm

@SS: I wish I had TNN, cause I'd be watching those. Also, when it comes to the ST movies, it seems every second one is a good one, and the odd numbers kind've sucked. I found WoK, the Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country, and First Contact the best of the ST movies, but The Motion picture, Search For Spock, Final Frontier, Generations, and Insurrection all left me really disspointed.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 3:28 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep:
Possibly, maybe if we are quiet for a second...

*whispering* Well it took a while, but you're right, there they are...

Now we can observe them in their natural habitat...

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:02 pm

Originally posted by Aegis:
@SS: I wish I had TNN, cause I'd be watching those. Also, when it comes to the ST movies, it seems every second one is a good one, and the odd numbers kind've sucked. I found WoK, the Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country, and First Contact the best of the ST movies, but The Motion picture, Search For Spock, Final Frontier, Generations, and Insurrection all left me really disspointed.

Final Frontier was probably the worst one, in a lot of people's opinions. It was directed by Shatner(not a bad thing), but there were a lot of casting and time problems which made it not as good as it could've been. Also, the original story idea that Shatner had was for the Enterprise to actually find/meet God and Satan. Since they weren't allowed to do that for some reason, it got changed to finding a false god. The only good scenes in it, imo, are the following: Uhura's dance, the fight with that cat-like girl, and the crashlanding in the Enterprise's shuttlebay.

Voyage Home was definitely one of the best TOS movies, as was Undiscovered Country.

I think my main problem with Wrath of Khan is that it is shown more than any other. This is because it was the most popular of the TOS movies(upon release in the theaters). If you check the schedule at [url="http://www.startrek.com"]http://www.startrek.com[/url] you'll see that they are showing it twice tomorrow morning. I also don't care as much for the storyline. Khan gets 'free.' Khan captures ship. Khan attacks Enterprise. Spock dies saving Enterprise. Khan's ship blows up.(Yay!) Spock's body deposited on Genesis planet. It, like Search for Spock, imo, is too plot driven, merely setting things up for Star Trek 4. 2 and 3 are needed, but they're certainly not the best, imo.

I like Star Trek Motion Picture because of V-ger. I also like the bald-headed girl and that Captain dude. They're cute, especially together.

Generations was interesting. Not the best, but still interesting. The story had two main points, the way I see it. 1.)What Picard says at the end about Time, and 2.)Data's 'emotional battle.'

First Contact was awesome. I loved it.

Probably the best ST movie yet. "Now, this is the good stuff. *pours some and drinks it* Okay, that wasn't so good. *tosses it behind him." I also loved Deanna's little bit about Time. If you haven't noticed, I like Time.

Insurrection was cool, though not as good as First Contact. It was different, which is good. I liked the "slowing down time" thing. Imo, it put things in a slightly different perspective, showing a race that seemed primitive and lacking in technology, but had originally been at least as advanced as the Federation.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 6:06 pm

The Voyage Home was very good. I found Generations to be very interesting and well made. First Contact is simply the best ST movie. Inserection was... different.

The first episode of enterprise was a very good start. It'll be interesting to see what they do with the series.

The best Star Trek series, is DS9. No argument.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 6:30 pm

Originally posted by Aegis:
 Little known fact, though, that is not in the Shows. In 2389, the Borg to commit a full scale invasion of the Alpha Quadrant. The federation breaks the Temporal Prime Directive by using a Welland Class ship, named the Premonition, to go back and warn the Federation mere days before it begins. It's kind've cool, because in this future, Vulcan, Qo'nos, and Earth are all assimilated planets. Anyway, during that time, the Akira class, Defiant class, and Sovereign class go into mass production, and form the fighting line against the borg. At this time, the Romulans have developed a working Phase Cloaking device, and the Klignons are consumed in a Civil War with the remnants of the Duras family, namly Toril who Work had spared years before. ST history is really neat, and some of you should read it. It's rather enjoyable.

Star Trek Armada rocked. Somehow the games seem more canon then the books when they have the actual actors performing in them. (After honing my skills at Starcraft I utterly demolished the poor folks I played multiplayer with

).

Originally posted by Aegis:
The original Defiant plans did not include the cloaking device, which is quite contrary to popular belief. The Romulans offered the device to the Federation in good spirits, because the Federation would neep all the help they could get, and the Romulans didn't want to officially fight the Dominion until they needed to. This was there way of shaking off responsibilty. Also, I beleieve I mentioned that the project was concelled after the Borg Threat ended, but later restored because of the Dominion threat, and the need for a war ship.

About the Defiant and it’s Romulan cloaking device: It was originally required that it only be used in the Gamma Quadrant, and in exchange Star Fleet would give the Romulans all their intelligence on Dominion activities. They started using it in the Alpha quadrant in “Way of the Warrior” (I’m not counting Thomas Riker’s little hijacking stint) and Sisco acknowledges that they’re breaking the treaty, but doing it for a good cause. Subsequent episodes decided to continue utilizing the cloaking device, despite the fact that it was in direct violation of the agreement with the Romulans (Granted it was cool having a Fed ship that could cloak

). Oh, and I always thought Worf was the perfect Captain for the Defiant; a sparse Federation warship that can cloak being command by the only Klingon in Starfleet just seemed right.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 10:15 pm

Originally posted by Gaxx_Firkraag:
The best Star Trek series, is DS9. No argument.

I didn't get to see all of DS9. For a season or two(including when Worf and Jadzia married), we didn't get a channel that showed DS9. We got Voyager, but not DS9.

Personally, I consider TNG and Vger my faves. TNG was the first Star Trek I ever really watched. Data was definitely my favorite char on TNG. In fact, I'm a bit envious of Tasha Yar's encounter with Data.

My other favorite char on TNG is Deanna Troi. She's beautiful, imo, though a little freaky looking in the first few eps. *snickers*

In Voyager, my favorite chars were Tom Paris and 7of9. I'm envious of B'lenna. I'm also envious of Chakotay's relations with 7of9, though I must say that I don't approve of that relationship. Chakotay/Janeway, Janeway/Seven, and/or Seven/Doctor I approve of. Chakotay/Seven just doesn't have any precedence.

My favorite chars in DS9 would have to be Ezri Dax(She's almost as cute as me.

) and Dr. Julian Bashir. I'm sure there are some genetic enhancements he has that they didn't mention on the show.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 1:56 pm

TNG was pretty good. Voyager was really good in the fact that they didn't have the normal aliens in the shows. The first few seasons of DS9 were ok, but the last few were the best. The war with the dominion was extremely well done.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 2:13 pm

Originally posted by Gaxx_Firkraag:
The war with the dominion was extremely well done.

I only got to see the beginnings of the war and the end of the war.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 3:32 pm

the reason the Dominion flared up on the show was because DS9's ratings were going down, and fast. the war boosted them back to what they wanted them to be.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 9:31 pm

@DP: LOL!

Re: T'pol's purpose.

Yeah, Star Trek has a long history of gratuitously good-looking female characters. Some times it works - Dianna Troi developed into a very good character, and fortunately started out as an atypical body-type (by Hollywood standards for sexy women). I had to respect that. However, I found no redeeming qualities in Seven of Nine. No real development (except Data-esque rip-offs in finding her emotions

). Yar couldn't act her way out of a bag. The first Dax worked well, but Ezri was a forced character (replacement written all over her - can you say **** Sargent?). Still, she did alright, in the short time she had. Torres had the most potential that was ultimately unrealized by unimaginative writers. Yeoman Rand, anyone?

The decontamination scene was practically insulting in its worthless-ness. Even the conversation did nothing to carry the plot line forward. I'd rather watch the shower scene in Starship Troopers - at least that demonstrated the uni-sex attitudes of the military complex.

Re: Lack of a significant space fight.

It might be interesting to see this Enterprise being forced to turn tail and run rather than always being able to duke it out with everyone they meet. Strategy and diplomacy wold be good values to emphasize, especially in this day and age. The lack of shielding and superior weapons would give this Star Trek a different spin.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 9:50 pm

Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
Yeah, Star Trek has a long history of gratuitously good-looking female characters. Some times it works - Dianna Troi developed into a very good character, and fortunately started out as an atypical body-type (by Hollywood standards for sexy women). I had to respect that.

I just got done watching Encounter At Farpoint Parts I&II on the TNN TNG Marathon. They had an interview with Marina Sirtis(sp?). She said that Deanna Troi was originally supposed to be the "brains." It just happened that she turned into a "sex symbol." Though, with that outfit, it doesn't surprise me. Her outfit looked like a combination of my Sailor Senshi uniform and the TOS uniforms for women. She's got nice legs, though.

Her hair was horrid, though. I hate that '80s style big wavy hair. *shudders*

Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
However, I found no redeeming qualities in Seven of Nine. No real development (except Data-esque rip-offs in finding her emotions ).

Seven was going good at first, but they kinda messed up along the way. I especially disliked the Chakotay/Seven stuff, it just didn't fit the storyline. I liked Seven, though.

Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
Yar couldn't act her way out of a bag.

Hey, I thought she was good. Not the best, but good. She could've become much better if they hadn't killed her off. Poor Tasha.

Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
The first Dax worked well, but Ezri was a forced character (replacement written all over her - can you say **** Sargent?). Still, she did alright, in the short time she had.

Jadzia was cool. She was an oddball and funny and all that. Ezri was cute and, with her, they dealt with some other things. The problem was that there wasn't a whole lot of the series left and they were in the middle of a war.

Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
Torres had the most potential that was ultimately unrealized by unimaginative writers.

Lt. Torres was cool.

Little interesting note: The guy that got frozen by Q aboard the Enterprise in EaF part I was Lt. Torres. Think he's a relation?

Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
The decontamination scene was practically insulting in its worthless-ness. Even the conversation did nothing to carry the plot line forward.

Actually, the conversation was important. It was what Tucker(?) said in that scene that made T'Pal think and realize what she needed to do.

Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
It might be interesting to see this Enterprise being forced to turn tail and run rather than always being able to duke it out with everyone they meet. Strategy and diplomacy wold be good values to emphasize, especially in this day and age. The lack of shielding and superior weapons would give this Star Trek a different spin.

I agree with you on that.

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Sailor Saturn ]