New but different build...harder?

[Mz_Trixter]

Hey all,

I've enjoyed playing Oblivion on 'N off for awhile now, but I've been quick to start off as a Fighter / Skirmisher just so I had enough leway and comfortability to decide how else I wanted to mold my build. I naturally started with the fairly 'fool-proof' Redgaurd and go mainly with stealth builds.

Since all my times playing - I've always been daunted about makin a primary mage to start with. Over all my time planning and replanning however, I've found a great way to level at my own pace without killing off the major skills I wanted So, I thought I'd make this my first mage. Though, I'm still rather undecided about what a good balance of skills would be. Here's something close to what I was wanting...

Major Skills
Destruction (Primary attack) - Element, unsure
Alchemy (Quickly mastered to compensate for healing/buffing)
Atheletics (Slowly / moderately increasing Speed)
Archery (Even this is a major, it still takes me near forever to get up )
-
-
-
These spaces are still open, but I was looking to put Illusion as one since I won't really plan on wearing much armor, so I'll be using this as a lifesaver.

The Base build would most likely be Breton (for Boosted Magika also Resist).
The sign could be Theif as much as Warrior to make up for the lack of Strength since I won't be mongering into Blade or melee fights for that matter. So altogether, Thief Built character with Crazy tough magic attacks.

Here's also how I plan on leveling those skills/attacks:
Destruction (go somewhere I wont get attacked - cast weakness to self)
Alchemy (Eat raw things/ find a trainer)
Illusion (cast minor illusion spells)
ect...

So I'm just wondering what other people thought or could add so I can make the best choices possible Thanks.

[galraen]

You shouldn't need to bost destruction usinkg weakness to fire etc., using it as yor primary weapon in conjunction with other schools should level you up at a reasonable speed.

The best use for Illusion is adding Demoralise to a Destruction spell, e.g. Demoralise X magnitude for five seconds + frost damage for five seconds. Forcing your oponent to run away and take damage at the same time, after five seconds they come back for another dose! Likewise you could combine fire damage with turn undead.

I never use alchemy as a major skill, it's far too important, both for mana/health regeneration and for financial reasons. As a result if I have it as a maor I zoom up in llevels far too quickly.

So my majors would be:

Destruction, Illusion (but not for chameleon, far too cheesy except in dire circumstances), Conjuration, Athletics and Acrobatics (but sneak all the time so they don't shoot up), Marksman (hardly ever use it though, buy training when I want to increase my agility), Alteration.

PS Another good spell combo is Shield on self + X Damage on opponent for # seconds. Balance Destruction/Illusion or Conjuration/Destruction spells to increase whichever discipline/attribute you wish to improve.

[Mz_Trixter]

I'm actually surprised you included alteration in there. I was trying to decide back 'n forth whether I should add it, but already having Illusion, Destruction, and Atheletics already I felt it might just hasten the levels. There's some good spells in it which might get me tempted to go trigger happy usin it

Im glad that some of the same skills are intact though & thanks for the tips.

[Fljotsdale]

Ok. I just checked back what I did with a pretty decent Breton, magic based, with Thief sign.

Armourer
Blade
Alteration
Mysticism
Acrobatics
Security
Sneak

I gave STR and END as the boosted attributes, since The Thief already gave 10 each to Spe Agi & Luck

The minor skills I chose to improve were:
Alchemy
Destruction
Restoration
Illusion

Only problem was that she was too good! :laugh:

[galraen]

The trick with alteration spells is to combine them with restoration or destruction spells in such a way that they count as restoration or destruction spells. For example shield + absorb health is very likely to count as restoration, you'll need to boost your restoration in order to use that combo, but willpower is always good to increase.

[Mz_Trixter]

Here's what I decided to do, I have an autosave incase I might have to redo, but it all seems to do okay...

Major Skills
Destruction
Illusion
Blade
Marksman
Armorer
Light Armor
Sneak

Key Minor Skills
Atheletics
Acrobatics
Alchemy
Alteration
Mysticism

Although, I'm just having a bit of trouble remembering where I can make the most money quickest that way I can start makin more spells, then train better ...now I'm kinda thinkin I should've done Acrobatics in place of Marksman

[Fljotsdale]

Looks a pretty ok build to me, for the most part.

Yeah, I like acrobatics, myself. Most people will tell you not to have it as a major skill, though. And most people would advise against Illusion as a major, too. I do myself, actually, despite the fact I have it as a major in my current char! :laugh: But, hey! It's YOUR character, nobody else's! And it's fun to play around.

As for Marksman - well, it depends on your intentions; do you plan to use it as your primary weapon? If so, then it's good to have it as a major. If it's just a back-up to your blade, then put something else in it's place. Having 2 weapons in major is something I wouldn't do, personally.

Another thing I don't do is to have an armour skill in major - but that's just because I get my char's into enchanted clothing as soon as possible, so they don't need an armour skill. But if you plan on using some of the nice armour - like the Dragon Armour you get at the end of the main quest - then it's worth it.

And I notice you don't have Security in anywhere - are you planning to use spells to open stuff? If so, I'd be inclined to have Alteration in major, otherwise it'll take a long time to get up to opening HARD lock.

As for money-making: I always start off with a few quests round town - go talk to Jensine; spend the night on the boat hotel on the Waterfront - plus the local dungeons - Vilverin, Sideways Cave, Dzonot Cave. Reasonable rewards and loot to sell.

[Mz_Trixter]

Looks a pretty ok build to me, for the most part.

Yeah, I like acrobatics, myself. Most people will tell you not to have it as a major skill, though. And most people would advise against Illusion as a major, too. I do myself, actually, despite the fact I have it as a major in my current char! :laugh: But, hey! It's YOUR character, nobody else's! And it's fun to play around.

As for Marksman - well, it depends on your intentions; do you plan to use it as your primary weapon? If so, then it's good to have it as a major. If it's just a back-up to your blade, then put something else in it's place. Having 2 weapons in major is something I wouldn't do, personally.

Another thing I don't do is to have an armour skill in major - but that's just because I get my char's into enchanted clothing as soon as possible, so they don't need an armour skill. But if you plan on using some of the nice armour - like the Dragon Armour you get at the end of the main quest - then it's worth it.

And I notice you don't have Security in anywhere - are you planning to use spells to open stuff? If so, I'd be inclined to have Alteration in major, otherwise it'll take a long time to get up to opening HARD lock.

As for money-making: I always start off with a few quests round town - go talk to Jensine; spend the night on the boat hotel on the Waterfront - plus the local dungeons - Vilverin, Sideways Cave, Dzonot Cave. Reasonable rewards and loot to sell.

Thanks for *not* trashing the build *too much* ..as for having marksman, I'm still really undecided even right now whether to use it as my primary or secondary

Because here's an example of how I've been playing my last few times:
Once I got into a new, different area - I'd use Scope you may get with Journeyman Bow - If I saw any scouts or (alarms) I'd take them out, then I'd attack from long range to close range till they got up next to me. When they did get in close, I cast Drain Fatigue in combo with another spell so they take Dmg in place :laugh: then having either a shortsword or a spell on hand I'd take 1 out and repeat the process After most hostiles are gone, I'd use the same tactic with stragglers

And my reason for having Light Armor is mainly because starting off, and going through the game without telling what you'll find; I usually end up with mix 'N match gear which usually comes out to be 1-2 peices of Light Armor, Heavy. So, I usually can tolerate using light armors but with this character; though it seems it'll be penalized if I wasn't skilled in it. More do to the fact that I tend to lose myself and end up running into, rather than from a mob thus I get hit every 2 seconds

Finally, I didn't really appeal to using Alteration as a major; mainly because I'd only be using it for Unlocking and why have it as a major when you could train for it and inplace of it, use something you might need for other situations...but, that's me.

[Fljotsdale]

I follow your reasoning perfectly! Yeah, that's a good tactic with Marksman - one I too often don't use! Trouble is, I mostly have Marksman as a minor skill, so I don't often get to Journeyman level with it. But it's really VERY good when I do get it!

About Armour skill - yes, it's true you need to wear armour initially; I'm another one that tends toward rushing in waving a sword when I should be standing back and picking 'em off with arrows or spells. But, since I don't wear armour for long, I personally prefer not to have the skill as a major. But that's my choice, and your choice is your choice. Most people seem to have an armour skill in Major. I can't remember ever seeing a build with no armour skill in major, even Mage types, though there must be more than just me! :laugh:

I like Alteration as a major for the simple reason there are some useful Journeyman and Expert spells, like Lighten Load and Pack Mule (very useful if your char is not physically strong). Guard and Weight of the World are also useful. Mind you, you need a decent amount of magica to cast 'em, which is where your Breton scores points!

And yeah - it's easy to train most of the Magic skills, so you don't need a single one in Major, except possibly Destruction ('cos you can't train yourself in it unless you mix harmful and healing spells which I only tried once and didn't find very effective), so I understand your reluctance to have Alt there.

Oh, I might mention that I am really regretting having Illusion and Alchemy in Major with my current character! Not sure yet if I will continue or start over.

[Mz_Trixter]

Oh, I might mention that I am really regretting having Illusion and Alchemy in Major with my current character! Not sure yet if I will continue or start over.

When I was still planning this character out, I too felt the need to have alchemy as a major. But I guess reality kinda hit me after thinking on it for a bit. Since you could always spend however long you need to train or bring it up. Now I'm also agreeing with Galraen.. eating all the time would just hasten things

If you do decide to go through with remaking I'd suggest keeping Illusion as one of the majors. I've had situations before when running in, all out wasn't the best option. So it's actually been a livesaver really. Plus, I like messing with their heads when sniping :laugh: 'N goin invisible It puts the fun back in the game when it starts to get bland at times.

[galraen]

You seem to have gone away from you original intentions Mz_Trixter, instead of a mage you seem to have built a tief type, and to be intent on using archery more than magic from what I understand from your subsequent posts.

Don't get me wrong, I like archery in this game, but not when I'm playing a mage character. Why use puny arrows when you can zap them with a spell? Even at the start you can have a decent offensive spell (for the first few levels anyway) for free from the boss lady in the Skingrad mages guild, which beats any bow you can get. You can use a Goblin Shaman's staff as a backup,

Spoiler

there's a really tasty one in the goblin mine just east of Skingrad that you can get on your way to the city.

Spoiler ends

[Mz_Trixter]

You seem to have gone away from you original intentions Mz_Trixter, instead of a mage you seem to have built a tief type, and to be intent on using archery more than magic from what I understand from your subsequent posts.

Don't get me wrong, I like archery in this game, but not when I'm playing a mage character. Why use puny arrows when you can zap them with a spell? Even at the start you can have a decent offensive spell (for the first few levels anyway) for free from the boss lady in the Skingrad mages guild, which beats any bow you can get. You can use a Goblin Shaman's staff as a backup,

Spoiler

there's a really tasty one in the goblin mine just east of Skingrad that you can get on your way to the city.

Spoiler ends

I'm actually just trying to compensate for the lack of gold in the beginning, also since there isn't really any other 'zoom' feature in the game; I've just been trying to get my Bow skill up around Journeyman, because I have to admit my aim blows when using spells plainly . Hoping by that time, I should have enough gold - also getting a decent flow of income regularly to train my other skills .

I am using Destruction as my primary attack aside from the bow. Then blade as a secondary (finisher). At the moment though, I'm going for that 'Fingers of the Mountain' Quest, remembering a tip, its cheaper to use when getting it before lvl 10

I've just never started as a mage and just going by whim to get to how I planned this character out

I'm also kinda using my own suggestion & working the guilds from evil to good I just hope it comes out close to how I think should.

[galraen]

Lack of gold at the baginning?? Are you using a mod that allocates ownership to all the stuff in the Mages Guilds? Or are you like me and refuse to take advatage of all the free booty unless you're role playing a thief?

[Mz_Trixter]

Well, Im playing on 360 - so I can't have the luxury of mods. But this is my first time playing as a more'ly built mage than my previous times and I just feel I should take it slower in that case. I have been takin my time clearing out the caves 'N such but since I can't carry as much as Im used to, I'm only racking up around 3K tops per dungeon. I guess Im also sorta waiting till this character gets a lil higher before I decide to do more quests.

*I think I'm gonna try a different strategy... I've just thought of it. I'm still going to keep this character incase it doesn't turn out so hot. But here's what I had in mind...
-Remake with the Atronach sign
-Raise Blade as my main attack / Work on Destruction afterwards
-Use Alchemy just not as a major

and just see how that comes out

[galraen]

I don't like tha Atronach BS in Oblivion, it used to be the best in Morrowind, but with the regenerating mana in Oblivion it's just too much of a pain. The absence of instant regenerators like the shrines in Morrowind dosn't help either, but at least it's not a super cheesy BS like it was in Morrowind.

Spoiler (Highlight to read):

Spoiler

In case you weren't already aware of it, the Elemental Shield Sigil stones increase armour class, as wll as give elemental protection. If you save just before taking the Sigil Stones, you can reload and try again if you don't like what you get. It's cheesy I guess, but if you ever want to play a pure mage, then wearing armour is a no-no, so it's very tempting to use that exploit. I usually follow the 'What you tell me three times must be true' line when I do it, so if I don't get what I want in three tries I take whatever I get. Otherwise I could spend ages retrying.

Spoiler ends

[Mz_Trixter]

I don't like tha Atronach BS in Oblivion, it used to be the best in Morrowind, but with the regenerating mana in Oblivion it's just too much of a pain. The absence of instant regenerators like the shrines in Morrowind dosn't help either, but at least it's not a super cheesy BS like it was in Morrowind.

Spoiler (Highlight to read):

Spoiler

In case you weren't already aware of it, the Elemental Shield Sigil stones increase armour class, as wll as give elemental protection. If you save just before taking the Sigil Stones, you can reload and try again if you don't like what you get. It's cheesy I guess, but if you ever want to play a pure mage, then wearing armour is a no-no, so it's very tempting to use that exploit. I usually follow the 'What you tell me three times must be true' line when I do it, so if I don't get what I want in three tries I take whatever I get. Otherwise I could spend ages retrying.

Spoiler ends

I agree it gets ridiculous at times.. and I even used to hate it. But I guess it shouldn't be so bad aslong as there's alchemy and if you can take initiative before running head first into any quest or fight. It will take alot of time to get used to the routine though But I guess if it turns out to be as good as other people say, Im willing to try it out. *Hope it works* :speech:

[Fljotsdale]

I tried out Atronach sign very recently and gave up because it was just such a pain in the butt. Ok, so you can make and carry around loads of Restore Magica potions. You can obtain and carry around those nice little blue stones (whose name currently escapes me) to recharge your magica. There are Magica wells inconveniently placed around the external environment, and there are the magica fountains in Oblivion towers. It's not enough. You have to depend heavily on magic users casting spells on you. You also need to be wearing something that absorbs magica. All that is very well, and as you progress in the game I'm sure you would find it worked splendidly, and all that magica you potentially have will stay filled up nicely. But early in the game - I struggled to a mere lvl 5 - it's pants.

[galraen]

The ultimate problem for me was that once it stopped being a pain in the butt, because of items which boosted Absorb Magica, it became as bad a game killer as 100% Chameleon.

[Mz_Trixter]

I don't know how well Im doing, but Im pretty sure its not too bad But the first chance I get, Im definitely makin me one of those Fire, Light Dmg, Soul Catch, Magika Absorb Shortswords

It's literally killing me once I run out of mana. Real pain I'll need to invest in Alchemy very soon - On the bright side though, I will get best of both worlds as far as Absorb/Resistance and hopefully, eventually master in Alchemy or close

[Fljotsdale]

I don't know how well Im doing, but Im pretty sure its not too bad But the first chance I get, Im definitely makin me one of those Fire, Light Dmg, Soul Catch, Magika Absorb Shortswords

It's literally killing me once I run out of mana. Real pain I'll need to invest in Alchemy very soon - On the bright side though, I will get best of both worlds as far as Absorb/Resistance and hopefully, eventually master in Alchemy or close

Yeah, mine was a Breton, too, and reasonable with Alchemy. I really resented having to search for stuff to refill magica, though. I hope you have more patience than me! :laugh: Best of luck with your char - keep us posted!