Ultimate Lightsaber configurations

[Cesium137]

I´ve been thinking backwards and forwards about the configurations of lightsabers, what type to use, what assembly and so forth. Here´s my conclusions:
* First of all, maximum damage should be achieved with two lightsabers, that is dualwielding. Also, it should not be short lightsabers, any of them, both should be 'fullgrowned'. Reason for this is that a dualbladed lightsaber does a maximum of 24 or so in damage, a single-blade 20. That would mean that the total damage amout for dual-wielding would far exceed that of 'dual-blading', or how you should put it. Since the dual-bladed saber isn´t balanced, but still a two-handed weapon, the penalty for dual-wielding two large single-bladed sabers wouldn´t matter that much in comparison about efficency.
* Second thing, make sure one component in the lightsaber-designs have the attribute keen, since that will double the critical range for the weapon. A dual-bladed saber has a critical range of 20 only, doubling means the range becomes 19-20. For a single-bladed though, the critical range is 19-20, doubling by keen attribute means critical range between 17-20. Now, add to this the effect of a Master critical strike, and the critical range of 17-20 (4 then) is quadrupled (4x4=16) rendering a critical range of 20-16=4. This interpreted in the above 'critical range' would mean that dual-wielding two sabers who both have a keen attribute making their critical range 17-20, would while using Master critical strike get a critical range of 4-20.
* Third, after taking the above into consideration, make sure your lightsabers are made up of components that, in order: (1) inflicts massive critical damage, (2) increases the damage inflicted, and (3) adds bonus to attack.

The result of this above should be a combination that would deal somewhere in the region of 80-100 hp of damage, depending on lightsaber configurations, if my calculations are correct. I´m still about to try it though, this is just theory so far. Comments maybe?

[jeremiah]

It is dang hard to get enough good crystals for two sabers in this game . Besides, their implementation here has for two sabers, full strength mutliplier for mainhand and half strength for offhand. For dual blade sabers, it is 1.5 times strength multiplier mainhand and half offhand. Don't quote me on that . Just read it off a FAQ.

[Jon_Irenicus]

I've done this configuration. Your calculations are correct, when you get critical hits, you get about 80-100 from a single saber. With two sabers, that ups to 160-200 damage per combat round.

You don't need any good crystals, you can just use velmorite (sp?), that yellow prism like crystal. It gives 1d6 daamge bonus and keen ability, allowing you to get better things on other spots.

One thing I would advise though is to actually go for +energy damage bonus upgrades instead of massive critical items. Such items improve the base damage of the light saber and get multiplied with the critical attack. Oh, and it is a good idea to use the aggressive attack form (forgot the name, you learn it from the master in Nar Shaddaa), since it improves weapon threat range by 1 (so I think it means you get x3 instead of x2, though I'm not sure).

[Cesium137]

I too have tested it now Jon I, and I believe to dualwield is superior to dualblade. Although, found out something I didn´t really calculated with, and that is for the flurry attack. To make it a true calculation, when using flurry it should be calculated as maximum damage x 2 for maximum hp damage, since this is for same timeperiod as a critical strike. In-game that is true too, that Flurry actually works better, since you have the benefits of base damage plus an eventual critical hit and then takes that times the amount of attacks the current flurry level allows. Should steem up for grim hp totals. And, it does.

With this though, lightsabers should be configured aiming at first Keen, then Attack bonus, since that will get you into the critical range anyhow..

[Jon_Irenicus]

The thing is, discussing the attack styles (flurry, critical strike and power attack) is pretty pointless since if you are going for up close raw power damage, you will get dual sabers and get best upgrades for them. At that point, you kill even the thoughest enemies in two rounds (regardless of what attack you use).

[UserUnfriendly]

max damage PER HIT is around 240-260....in theory, the maximum damage per round is therefore near 1000 damage per round...

two lightsabres, one regular, one short...(by using a balanced weapon offhand, you gain +2 bonus to attack rating in main hand) besides, under master speed, using power attack you hit 3 times main hand, and once offhand.

off hand, ossus deuling lens, and expert deflection emitter...improved ion cell...pc crystal and kaiburr crystal...

main hand...improved beam gem, master fencing emitter and ultimate ditanium cell...pc crystal (using sabre duplication cheat) and solaris crystal

use master speed, master power attack, and shien lightsabre form...

16-20 chance for critical hit with master power attack, a natural critical...and with shien, you can quadruple the critical hit multiplier...

high level weapon master or marauder, increased melee damage, str modifier, base lightsaber damage, any constant bonuses from weapon mods and the bonus damage from master power strike all quadruples...

http://forums.forgottenwars.net/index.p ... opic=13481

[ajdaha]

Why would anyone want to use the cheat to duplicat "your" crystal?
Duplicate everything else, but not items which can only be found once. At least then you can say that you didn't cheat but just took a short cut to your final character.

Just sayin...

[RandomPrecision]

I don't think the comparison in the OP of this thread is valid. The double-saber has a maximum damage of 24, and each single blade has a maximum damage of 20. That doesn't mean that you deal 40 damage with each dual-wielded strike. In fact, your maximum per hit (without modification) is still 20, which is still lower than 24. Since you get as many attacks with a double saber (one end is treated as an off hand weapon) that deal potentially greater amounts of damage, the double-saber is superior in this regard.

As for saber crystals and other components, you'll have to gather twice as many to give a dual-wielder proper enhancements. However, a double-blade wielder needs drastically fewer pieces of equipment. And for example, the personalized crystal that you get from the center of the crystal cave can only be used in one lightsaber. If you are a double-saber wielder, the best crystals you find can be used with each attack, whereas a dual-wielder will have to find additional parts.

All in all, there's no reason why you shouldn't use a double-edged lightsaber, unless you have too few feats to spend on the two-weapon fighting progression.

[Noober]

Please correct me if any of this is wrong:

[QUOTE=Cesium137]That would mean that the total damage amout for dual-wielding would far exceed that of 'dual-blading', or how you should put it. [/QUOTE]
As stated by the previous poster, completely incorrect. Both will wield 2 attacks, the dual-bladed has a max damage of 24 for EACH attack, while the dual-wielding fighter will have a max damage of 20 for each attack.

[QUOTE=Cesium137]This interpreted in the above 'critical range' would mean that dual-wielding two sabers who both have a keen attribute making their critical range 17-20, would while using Master critical strike get a critical range of 4-20. [/QUOTE]
Also incorrect, keen does not act as a 'base' critical threat range. In essence, the original range of 19-20 will be multiplied 5 times with keen + Master Critical Strike.

[QUOTE=Cesium137] Third, after taking the above into consideration, make sure your lightsabers are made up of components that, in order: (1) inflicts massive critical damage[/QUOTE]
AFAIK Massive Critical damage does not multiply and therefore practically any 'normal' damage will be multiplied to exceed MC damage.

[QUOTE=Cesium137]The result of this above should be a combination that would deal somewhere in the region of 80-100 hp of damage, depending on lightsaber configurations, if my calculations are correct. I´m still about to try it though, this is just theory so far. Comments maybe?[/QUOTE]
Using the critical multiplier increaser form, you should be able to average about 150 per critical (often when used with master critical strike) on a moderately poorly built character (i.e. mine in my last walkthrough)

[QUOTE=RandomPrecision]All in all, there's no reason why you shouldn't use a double-edged lightsaber, unless you have too few feats to spend on the two-weapon fighting progression.[/QUOTE]
There are actually very good reasons not to use dual-blades (even though I do favour them). Mostly this lies in the fact that none of the combat feats suit the dual blade. Critical Srike shouldn't work for obvious reasons. Flurry whilst good early game, is not as effective late game should you use Master Speed + Juyo (giving only a 20% damage increase). Power Attack does not give a great an effect to the dual-blade as the dual-wielder because of the higher base damage.

@UserUnfriendly: Theoretically the maximum possible damage will come from a godly dual-blade lightsaber, using Master Power Attack, and using the critical multiplier form. Or is that what you were saying?

Of course none of this really matters since you can kill anybody in a single round (usually) except Kreia.

Btw, does anybody know if Nextor actually double threat range as opposed to adding the Keen ability.

[UserUnfriendly]

[QUOTE=Noober]
Also incorrect, keen does not act as a 'base' critical threat range. In essence, the original range of 19-20 will be multiplied 5 times with keen + Master Critical Strike.

AFAIK Massive Critical damage does not multiply and therefore practically any 'normal' damage will be multiplied to exceed MC damage.

@UserUnfriendly: Theoretically the maximum possible damage will come from a godly dual-blade lightsaber, using Master Power Attack, and using the critical multiplier form. Or is that what you were saying?

Btw, does anybody know if Nextor actually double threat range as opposed to adding the Keen ability.[/QUOTE]

in theory keen and master critical strike will allow almost every hit to be critical hit...however, empirical research and a simple look at the high feedback will show that the max alloted by game engine is around half attacks is critical hit.

massive criticals will not multiply, so you're half right...normal damage bonuses that are CONSTANTS will multiply, those in a range will NOT. wtf?

lets say you have str 18...+4 to damage...that will multiply in a critical hit...lets say you add a emitter that adds 1-9 extra damage...that will NOT multiply...so the components that add a set amount of extra damage will muliply, but not components that add a range of extra damage...

the max damage is using shien form, master power strike, TWO lightsabres, , with improved beam gem lens, ultimate ditanium cell, and master fencing emitters in the main hand. period. your charname crystal, and either babam fire ingot or solaris crystal in main hand, anything you want in off hand...

nextor only adds keen which doubles critical threat...with kotor 2, you can use improved beam gem lens, to add keen to a sabre, so the nextor becomes worthless to use in sabre construction.

and using short sabres in offhand does give you some fairly significant attack bonuses..almost as good as master dueling feat, so its a better selection.

[Noober]

[QUOTE=UserUnfriendly]in theory keen and master critical strike will allow almost every hit to be critical hit...however, empirical research and a simple look at the high feedback will show that the max alloted by game engine is around half attacks is critical hit.[/QUOTE]
So keen is actually multiplied (only limited by the game), contrary to KOTOR I (which share the same engine) and d20 rules in which this game was taken?

[QUOTE=UserUnfriendly]massive criticals will not multiply, so you're half right...normal damage bonuses that are CONSTANTS will multiply, those in a range will NOT. wtf?[/QUOTE]
:S When did I say that? What why do you mean as well??

[QUOTE=UserUnfriendly]ets say you have str 18...+4 to damage...that will multiply in a critical hit...lets say you add a emitter that adds 1-9 extra damage...that will NOT multiply...so the components that add a set amount of extra damage will muliply, but not components that add a range of extra damage...[/QUOTE]
Where did you get this infomation? And does Strength bonus multiply?

[QUOTE=UserUnfriendly]the max damage is using shien form, master power strike, TWO lightsabres, , with improved beam gem lens, ultimate ditanium cell, and master fencing emitters in the main hand. period. your charname crystal, and either babam fire ingot or solaris crystal in main hand, anything you want in off hand...[/QUOTE]
Forgive me for my ignorance, but I fail to understand you logic. Wouldn't having a higher base max damage (from the double-blade) result in a higher maximum damage?

[QUOTE=UserUnfriendly]nextor only adds keen which doubles critical threat...with kotor 2, you can use improved beam gem lens, to add keen to a sabre, so the nextor becomes worthless to use in sabre construction.[/QUOTE]
Ah, thank you, I though it was a bit unusual since every other item listed it as "Keen" while Nextor was x2.

[QUOTE=UserUnfriendly]and using short sabres in offhand does give you some fairly significant attack bonuses..almost as good as master dueling feat, so its a better selection.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that bonus only +2 at best? How is it as good as +3 damage and +3 to hit? Especially since you even lose damage?

[Brockaine22]

Your completely wrong about double-bladed sabers...because every hit with a DBed hits for 24 (we'll use base dmg for simplicity) and you still get the offhand swings(you know what i mean) each time you hit its for 2-24 with DW its 2-20 per hit or 2-20 and 2-16....also with a double-bladed you can get much higher dmg...if you choose not to use personal crystal you can get a double-bladed saber over 60 dmg easily
Barab Ore (2-16 fire)
Ponite(1-10 cold dmg +char)
Ark lens(1-12 energy)
emiter(5 energy)
sorry i don't have my list atm so that is just a rough config of a full dmg lightsaber

[RandomPrecision]

[QUOTE=Noober]Please correct me if any of this is wrong:[/quote]

Sure.

[quote="Noober]There are actually very good reasons not to use dual-blades (even though I do favour them). Mostly this lies in the fact that none of the combat feats suit the dual blade. Critical Srike shouldn't work for obvious reasons.[/quote]

? Why not?

[quote=Noober]Flurry whilst good early game"]

Bah humbug. Darth Nihilus did survive two rounds, but then again, he has to, due to a story event involving Visas.

[quote="Noober]Power Attack does not give a great an effect to the dual-blade as the dual-wielder because of the higher base damage.[/quote"]

I never really used Power Attack, but as I remember, it just adds a constant to damage - there's no reason that using it with dual sabers would be any better or worse than a double-bladed one.

And I recommend (for you light-siders out there) to use Force Enlightenment with it, especially when you already have an absurd amount of strength to add damage per hit.

[Noober]

[QUOTE=RandomPrecision]? Why not?[/QUOTE]
The less then adequate critical threat range. Of course you can use it, but it won't reach anywhere near the efficiency of a single saber (and its 19-20 threat).

[QUOTE=RandomPrecision]I never really used Power Attack, but as I remember, it just adds a constant to damage - there's no reason that using it with dual sabers would be any better or worse than a double-bladed one.[/QUOTE]
Because of the higher base damage, it would be worse than with a single because the percentage increase in damage would be lower. Power Attack > Flurry when damage is low. As damage increases, the relative effictiveness of Power Attack decreases.

[UserUnfriendly]

[QUOTE=Noober]So keen is actually multiplied (only limited by the game), contrary to KOTOR I (which share the same engine) and d20 rules in which this game was taken?

:S When did I say that? What why do you mean as well??

Where did you get this infomation? And does Strength bonus multiply?

Forgive me for my ignorance, but I fail to understand you logic. Wouldn't having a higher base max damage (from the double-blade) result in a higher maximum damage?

Ah, thank you, I though it was a bit unusual since every other item listed it as "Keen" while Nextor was x2.

Isn't that bonus only +2 at best? How is it as good as +3 damage and +3 to hit? Especially since you even lose damage?[/QUOTE]

you asked if in the long run it was better to boost normal damage that will mutiply, in the case of a critical, rather than go for upgrades that add massive critical, since the normal damage does indeed muliply...i answered that not all upgrades to damage will multiply...only some kinds of damage enhancements multiply...

i got the information from a dev in the old kotor I forum. and a lot of empirical research later, he's proven to be accurate...

strength bonus does indeed multiply...so does increase melee damage, echani battle stims, and weapon specialization...

short saber increases accuracy at expense of damage...until you look at high feedback, and notice that with master speed powers, your main hand strikes 4 times with master flurry and once with offhand...

i generally put stat enhancing crystals in off hand, and deflection enhancing crystals, cause it hardly ever makes a difference...your mainhand does most of the slaughter...

[Noober]

PAGE 2!!!!!

Well, I did some research myself (assuming the effects of +1-10 cold is the same as +1-8 energy etc.).

Using my old character with the following:
+19 STR mod
11-29 Damage (no variables)
+7 vs. Dark
+1-10 cold
+2 Weapon Spec.
+2 Inc. Melee Dmg
= 42-69 Damage
av. 55.5
Shien critical av.: 166.5
Shien critical w/o cold damage av.: 150
Frequency of Criticals (w/ Master Critical): 8/17 = 47%
19-20 x5 = 11-20 = 50%
17-20 x4 = 4-20 = 85%
I would therefore assume that keen does stack.
Misses: 1/21

Recorded critical values (against Darth Sion):
129, 146, 137, 114, 146, 135, 135, 134

Very unusual results, could you point out the mistake I made (if there was one).

[QUOTE=UserUnfriendly]short saber increases accuracy at expense of damage...until you look at high feedback, and notice that with master speed powers, your main hand strikes 4 times with master flurry and once with offhand...[/QUOTE]
That's true, however I would say that it is not the best idea firstly to use Master Speed with Flurry. Secondly, +10% chance to hit is at the very least as negligable as the increase in damage, if not more so, not to mention that you should have no trouble hitting anyone without rolling a 1 (especially since all progressions are now even). Even a fraction of 25% of your total damage is more important than a possible 10% increase to hit in my experience.

[dorian_gray]

don't you get an extra off hand attack when dual wielding?

[Ergophobia]

A keen 19-20 weapon using master critical strike becomes 11-20, a 50% chance. The critical modifier only applies to the base damage of a weapon, thus the +1-10 cold and the +7 vs. Dark are applied after trippling damage.

[UserUnfriendly]

[QUOTE=Ergophobia]A keen 19-20 weapon using master critical strike becomes 11-20, a 50% chance. The critical modifier only applies to the base damage of a weapon, thus the +1-10 cold and the +7 vs. Dark are applied after trippling damage.[/QUOTE]

not quite...the +7 is tripled, but the 1-20 cold is not tripled...

[Noober]

That just adds to the average damage, so why is my damage so low ?

Oh, btw, a double-bladed saber is actually balanced according to some people I know.