A more serious SYM thread (no spam)

[Georgi]

[QUOTE=Aegis]@Luis: That second quote comes from Xan, not me [/QUOTE]

@Aegis that's why you sounded more intelligent than usual, eh?

So, I haven't read this whole thread, but what's the point in this discussion? Sounds like same old same old to me... Every six months or so, someone posts a thread whinging about the way SYM is going - all the cool people have left, there's too much spam, there's too much serious discussion... Then everyone forgets about it and gets on with whatever they want to do, be it spam or serious discussion or flaming newbies. All I can say, if newbies feel persecuted, is thank goodness you weren't here in the good old days when spammers were spammers and newbies were toast.

Oh, and I look down on everyone, however long they have been here. :devil:

[CM]

[QUOTE=Xandax]A couple of notes to this in general:
I'm sure - but that would have no place in this thread at all. [/quote]

Yes it does. For the simple reason is that the SYM community has self-divided itself into 3 or 4 groups which are easily marked and they generally blame each other for the "downfall" for SYM. I was waiting for someone to bite on the naming names part because (And many did ):

The blame falls on everybody. Naming names is easy because the list would consist of every single member of SYM. No exception including me. The problem is that these groups do not take the blame themselves. They blame everybody else but themselves. It takes two to tango yadda yadda blah blah.

If you post on SYM you are to blame for the general divide in the community and the problems, oldie, ancient, newbie, mod, regular members. We are all to blame.

Aegis I have learn that on SYM as in real life people will read what they want in your statements. I really don't care about tact anymore because regardless of what I say people will assume whatever they wish regardless of what is written in plain english.

Everybody is to blame for the general state of SYM.

What SYM is no longer:
1. SYM is no longer welcoming
2. SYM is no longer tolerant
3. SYM is no longer accepting.

This applies to everything, spam, serious dicussions, general stupidity and people's individual tastes in music or humor.

[Luis Antonio]

[QUOTE=CM]
What SYM is no longer:
1. SYM is no longer welcoming
2. SYM is no longer tolerant
3. SYM is no longer accepting.

This applies to everything, spam, serious dicussions, general stupidity and people's individual tastes in music or humor.[/QUOTE]

Dont be drastic. You are biased, because you have been telling we're that way ever since I arrived (after you, yes). Now, because sometimes you're intolerant too you say everybody is. Yes, you are. But, despite of what everyone says, you apologize - maybe not from your heart, but you apologize. Now you always welcomed the newcomers. Like me. So its also your fault. Stopped posting, stopped introducing people to spam. Period. Your fault: 50%. You were the welcome boy, the maitre. So, bite me. About acceptance, you're guilty too. You dont accept having to welcome people anymore, and dont spam. Your fault. Also your fault in fact.

So, I guess maybe we should stablish a duty code for the oldies. Saying hello to newbies. Explaining them how are the mechanics. Telling them to behave whenever they seem to be flaming. And yes, Fas, its your fault and mine too. I've helped SYM divide but I want to help, and I want your help, not only you or me pointing fingers. Anything you want to add?

[Ravager]

He did include himself Luis (rather than just blaming everyone else):

[QUOTE=CM] No exception including me.[/QUOTE]

@CM, when you say SYM is not welcoming, do you mean the members themselves, the content of SYM or the rules governing SYM and GB (or a combination of the above)?
IMO the vast majority of members are welcoming 99% of the time.

[QUOTE=Luis]In fact I like the science based answers, and I dont struggle trying to defeat them at the boards (I mostly lurk at serious discussions nowadays). But I read them, and I think that the different points of views (even after the scientific truth has been revealed) are very interesting.[/QUOTE]

I believe the same goes for me, I try to make an effort to read through such threads, but often feel there is little I can contribute, either because it would be redundant (previously mentioned or not directly relevant) or I simply do not know what to post in response.

[dragon wench]

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]So, I guess maybe we should stablish a duty code for the oldies. Saying hello to newbies. Explaining them how are the mechanics. Telling them to behave whenever they seem to be flaming. [/QUOTE]


Luis,
I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea, in and of itself...
But, people come here to relax. If they felt that were subject to some kind of rigorous code of conduct, they would show up even less than they do now, IMO.

As far as welcoming people goes... personally, I appreciate sincerity. If I genuinely wish to welcome somebody to SYM or Game Banshee I will do so. But, I do not think it should be something that is required.
For one, it would be like the times you go into a store and some clerk fixes you with a bright, plastic smile, while chirping "How are you today?"
You know for a fact they don't give a damn how you're doing, and that they are only addressing you in this manner because it is a job requisite.

As I said earlier,
Yes, older members should probably exercise a bit more sensitivity, but newer members also need to be less sensitive. Just because somebody does not immediately embrace you with open arms, does not mean they have no wish to interact with you. It might be that the person is busy, and just dropping by for a quick look (as I am doing now incidentally), or it might be that they are preoccupied and don't actually notice a new member.
But please..don't take it as a sign of hostility or a lack of interest... or as some kind of personal slight.

[TonyMontana1638]

[QUOTE=dragon wench]
Yes, older members should probably exercise a bit more sensitivity, but newer members also need to be less sensitive. Just because somebody does not immediately embrace you with open arms, does not mean they have no wish to interact with you. It might be that the person is busy, and just dropping by for a quick look (as I am doing now incidentally), or it might be that they are preoccupied and don't actually notice a new member.
But please..don't take it as a sign of hostility or a lack of interest... or as some kind of personal slight.[/QUOTE]

I know newer posters may be a little too sensitive at times (my self especially) because it's almost impossible to respond to every possible post in some way and, as Rav taught me , it's sometimes just impossible to intelligently respond to a comment. But in the new guys' defense, it is really, REALLY hard to try and get yourself involved in SYM at first. Most new members have no idea how to effectively post (and especially no idea how to SPAM which, contrary to popular belief, takes some skill ), no immediately friendly face in the crowd to turn to for support and, frankly, it's intimidating to walk into the middle of a conversation between friends and try and fit in (which is what happens to any new peeps). It's impossible not to be sensitive to many of your first posts not getting any real responses which is very common (happened to me ). That's not necessarily the vets' faults, but it still happens nevertheless and it's demoralizing (a member or two I've met since I got here tried their hand at it and we haven't heard from them since ).

Most people here are great (I'll say it again), but I have not seen many members being proactive in helping new guys adapt and, without that help, they are most likely not going to stick around. Some of us got lucky: Chuch apparently lent fiona some help and i received some of that asistance from various members (Rav and Hill come to mind) but there certainly isn't enough of it. You may say "Well hey what do you know, you haven't been here to see much" but I lurked for a long frickin' time before I officially joined and even longer before I entered the halls of SYM and I saw very little of it then and I see very little of it now. I'm to blame as well, there's no way in hell I'd leave myself out of this, and maybe I'm most to blame then: having so recently felt what it's like I should've been more proactive. I wasn't. For that I'm sorry.

All I'm saying is yes new posters are sensitive, but there's a damn good reason for that.

[CM]

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]Dont be drastic. You are biased, because you have been telling we're that way ever since I arrived (after you, yes). Now, because sometimes you're intolerant too you say everybody is. Yes, you are. But, despite of what everyone says, you apologize - maybe not from your heart, but you apologize. Now you always welcomed the newcomers. Like me. So its also your fault. Stopped posting, stopped introducing people to spam. Period. Your fault: 50%. You were the welcome boy, the maitre. So, bite me. About acceptance, you're guilty too. You dont accept having to welcome people anymore, and dont spam. Your fault. Also your fault in fact.

So, I guess maybe we should stablish a duty code for the oldies. Saying hello to newbies. Explaining them how are the mechanics. Telling them to behave whenever they seem to be flaming. And yes, Fas, its your fault and mine too. I've helped SYM divide but I want to help, and I want your help, not only you or me pointing fingers. Anything you want to add?[/QUOTE]

Luis re-read my post. I have said it in 3 different ways that i am to blame as well. I certainly don't think i am above this. After all i created a thread where we inducted new people into our "clique". Pretty damn retarded now that i think about it. I will be extremely honest i am very intolerant on many issues. Stupidity and arrogance being the most that affect SYM. Did i have the oldie feeling i want the good old days? Yes i did. I frankly don't care anymore.

This topic (and the previous threads on the matter) has literally destoryed any desire for me to post on SYM. Until this topic came up i did not give a damn where SYM was headed. SYM was a place to relax and that is all I wanted to do. I would join a serious discussion if i had something to add or felt something was wrong or just wanted to post my bloody opinion.

The desire to split SYM, get rid of spam, SYM being to serious, spam being of a pathetic quality and generally to limit the way other people want to interact has just pissed me off to such a degree that i don't care to post anymore.

SYM used to be a place where you could do what you wanted and say it in your own fashion. You had that freedom. People accepted you for who you were. You did not have to conform. That is no longer the case.

I can tell you right now if the Slurrs were back and started posting, there would be an uproar on the forums with the spam they generated and how they crashed threads.

Now you need to conform, be it with regard to spam or serious topics. SYM is no longer a free spirit forum. It is like any other forum. CONFORM CONFORM CONFORM.

And yes i am as much to blame for this as is everybody. You say i am 50% to blame. I say i am 100% to blame.

I however will retract one statement and amend it. Not everybody is to blame of this situation. Anybody who showed up after Luis and Brynn is basically caught in something they don't understand or are responsible for. Its the people who were here before Brynn and Luis that are responsible for this mess. Yes me included.

Why? Because there is alot of repressed anger and lack of respect on part of these older members towards each other. I know this for a fact because i have heard this from various posters from all sides.

Me? I am on no side. I want just to freaking come to SYM and relax. This retarded topic has destoryed any fond feelings i had for this forum.

You want SYM to be open loving and accepting? Ask the oldies including me to deal with their repressed issues of aggression towards each other.

I am just really sorry that alot of people who are new have to deal with the ill affects of this situation.

I am certainly sorry that this thread has been brought up again.

I have lost my temper on this the final time. Honestly if I post in this thread again it will just be a repeat of what happened when Kayless was flamed and left. I will speak my mind and bluntly discuss the fact that everybody is walking around.

Its amazing, we have so many intelligent and mature posters here but nobody has the courage to openly discuss the two issues that plague SYM the most. I know i haven't touched them because honestly i don't want to deal with the fall out. But there are two issues which everybody knows are the problem with this forum. Nobody wants to discuss them or even mention them.

Well i just did mention one of them. The repressed anger and lack of respect among oldies is one issue. The other one is well...lets see what controversy i generate with this post.

People on SYM for whatever reason hate hearing the truth.

[Fiona]

[quote="Tony] Fiona had chus[/quote"]

I know it's "no spam", but I would just like to deny that.

On topic. It is very difficult to post at first. But I say again that many people actively helped me. Some of it was in PM's so a lurker wouldn't know though

[Luis Antonio]

[QUOTE=CM] SYM was a place to relax and that is all I wanted to do. I would join a serious discussion if i had something to add or felt something was wrong or just wanted to post my bloody opinion.

<snip>

Why? Because there is alot of repressed anger and lack of respect on part of these older members towards each other. I know this for a fact because i have heard this from various posters from all sides.

Me? I am on no side. I want just to freaking come to SYM and relax. This retarded topic has destoryed any fond feelings i had for this forum.

People on SYM for whatever reason hate hearing the truth.[/QUOTE]

For the fist time this year, you've told what you want, the way you want and you're complaing. You've spoke your mind. Yes. For the first time.

See, was that hard? Yes I complained with you. I have anger and I'm in the mood to blow things up. So why not discussing it?

Denial and going away will lead you nowhere, Fas, you need to get back and post with us, and be yourself as you were in your last post. Not that guy who would come and disappear cause they havent heard your opinion on some thread.

And yes, yes, definitely, I'm guilty too.

[TonyMontana1638]

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]So, I guess maybe we should stablish a duty code for the oldies. Saying hello to newbies. Explaining them how are the mechanics. Telling them to behave whenever they seem to be flaming. And yes, Fas, its your fault and mine too. I've helped SYM divide but I want to help, and I want your help, not only you or me pointing fingers. Anything you want to add?[/QUOTE]
I'm not going to comment aon this little spat here because it's none of my business and, especially, because I have no idea what's going on and why everyone keeps calling him Fas (CM is his name as far as I know ).

I would however like to comment about the 'duty code' concept: I hope you aren't serious about that because it's just a dumb idea. I'd hope veteran members would welcome new dudes, explain some of the procedures to them, make 'em feel welcome out of kindness; not some 'code'. I don't want to necessarily speak for a whole crowd here, but I don't think anyone here would want to be taken under someone's wing because of any 'law': unwilling mentors do more damage than good.

I think it's great you want to help, I don't know if there's anyone here who doesn't, but that isn't the way to go about it.

... And fair enough Fiona, in fact im going to edit that before he sees it and gets some ideas
I would also like to say that I hadn't considered PMs : that's a good point. I didn't get any such Pms (Hill told me to watch my mouth a coupla times but... ) so I hadn't given 'em any thought. My opinion remains unchanged, but I will keep that in mind.

[Bloodstalker]

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]Dont be drastic. You are biased, because you have been telling we're that way ever since I arrived (after you, yes). Now, because sometimes you're intolerant too you say everybody is. Yes, you are. But, despite of what everyone says, you apologize - maybe not from your heart, but you apologize. Now you always welcomed the newcomers. Like me. So its also your fault. Stopped posting, stopped introducing people to spam. Period. Your fault: 50%. You were the welcome boy, the maitre. So, bite me. About acceptance, you're guilty too. You dont accept having to welcome people anymore, and dont spam. Your fault. Also your fault in fact.

So, I guess maybe we should stablish a duty code for the oldies. Saying hello to newbies. Explaining them how are the mechanics. Telling them to behave whenever they seem to be flaming. And yes, Fas, its your fault and mine too. I've helped SYM divide but I want to help, and I want your help, not only you or me pointing fingers. Anything you want to add?[/QUOTE]

There already is an explanation for the mechanics of the forum. It's the rules thread. Regardless of any discussion about Sensitivity or whatever else, those are the only rules anyone has to follow here.

As far as telling members to behave, I was under the assumption that was what we have mods for. I see no reason why every member should take it upon himself to become a deputy or something on the board.

Personally, I am not here to hold anyone else's hand or walk them through anything. I will continue to interact with members, young and old, the same as I always have. If I find something I want to comment on, a thread that interests me, or someone that I like, then I will interact with them if I have the time. If I don't, then I won't, standardised guidlines for older members or not. Saying hello is fine, and I do that for the most part when someone takes part in any conversation I am a part of. But after that it's purely up to how the interactions go as to how often I interact with someone. I will talk to who interests me, and I will also not form judgement on people based on anything other than my own personal experience with that person. But I also do not feel any compulsion to become any kind of mentor figure or think that I have a responsibility to go out of my way to make every new member feel welcome and special as a person or any of that other new age sensitivity crap. The only obligation I have to anyone is common courtesy which I do show to everyone until they show themselves to not be deserving of even that.

When I first got here, some members liked me, and some initially didn't take well to some of my posts. In other words, not everyone went out of their way to open their arms and make sure I felt my needs were being met. I also didn;t expect them to. But I also didn't tuck my tail between my legs and run off in some corner whining because someone with a higher post count greeted me with a disproving comment or didn't immediatly treat me like their best firend they haven't seen in years. Why should they? They knew me as well as I knew them, which meant they didn't know me at all.

treating people with respect is one thing. Advocating some sort of code of conduct for older members is quite another and it's one that quite frankly does not sit well with me and one I would simply ignore if it were instituted anyway.

[ch85us2001]

On the topic of welcoming newbies, I try to PM every new member that shows up on the browser (Under the "newest member" heading.) to welcome them to gamebanshee, and invite them to SYM and the Spam Factory.

Most dont respond, some do, I PM'ed slade and he came.

Some times it just takes a lot of effort for little reward.


@ Tony, Id like to concur with Fiona. WHAT??????????? :laugh:

[CM]

[QUOTE=Ravager]@CM, when you say SYM is not welcoming, do you mean the members themselves, the content of SYM or the rules governing SYM and GB (or a combination of the above)?
IMO the vast majority of members are welcoming 99% of the time.[/QUOTE]

I say its not welcoming in a few ways. People hold opinions of you based on stereotypes. I am going to touch pandora's box here again. This is the second issue that i did not want to touch but hell I might as well screw myself over completely instead of half way.

People say there are oldies, mods, newbies etc. That is bs. There are two groups on SYM where this whole bloody controversy is focused.

1. Spammers
2. Serious posters.

The spammers don't care about the serious threads don't want to participate and just generally wish to spam to high heaven. Just general relaxed chit chat for no reason other than to post. They don't participate in serious threads and certainly don't see why the serious threads should be considered no spam. SYM should be light hearted and fun - which basically means excessive amounts of spam and general nonsense.

The serious posters want to discuss threads in peace without having them bumped to the 3rd page due to the excessive spam. Secondly they feel that spam is generally a waste of time and should be curtailed in favor of serious mature discussions. (Both statements above are fact and you all can do a search for threads on the matter. I personally agree with the first statement. A serious thread being bumped to page three due to spam is bloody annoying).

You poor new posters have gotten stuck in this struggle of power. People have personally in my opinion turned this into an issue of the future of SYM.

It isn't.

SYM survived and will survive with both. People just need to be more tolerant.

When i say its unwelcoming i mean just that. You aren't welcomed for who you are. I know I had problems with the "new spammers" and the like. It was idiotic and stupid. It made no sense. I only didn't like it because i didn't agree with the "quality" of spam. It was pretty retarded.

If someone wants to spam a certain way you can go ahead and do that. I know naming names is not the thing done on SYM - because everybody wants to ignore the issue. So i will join consensus

However i want to give an example. Chu is hilarious. I find his wacky sense of humor and random bs entertaining. I can easily say most people did not in the past. They have opened and accepted Chu now and nobody has any anything negative to say anymore.

But that is what annoys the hell out of me. If chu had started posting in 2001 he would be readily accepted with no problems. Now people make this distinction of oldie or newbie or spammer and serious poster. I see no reason for these retarded demarcations, because people obviously seem to take them seriously and to heart.

COMM, Spammer, Slurr, Heathens were for fun. They were random BS people just joking around and wasting time. The current tags of oldie or newbie etc now have stereotypical images associated to them, which is utter BS.

Anyway i think i have done enough damage for the night. I am going to love to see what is said in a few hours.

[CM]

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]For the fist time this year, you've told what you want, the way you want and you're complaing. You've spoke your mind. Yes. For the first time.

See, was that hard? Yes I complained with you. I have anger and I'm in the mood to blow things up. So why not discussing it?

Denial and going away will lead you nowhere, Fas, you need to get back and post with us, and be yourself as you were in your last post. Not that guy who would come and disappear cause they havent heard your opinion on some thread.

And yes, yes, definitely, I'm guilty too.[/QUOTE]


Dude this should be done on MSN but i am too lazy. I have one question? Why should i be the one to do it? I know i speak for a few people when i post on this matter, yet I am the only one who voices this. In PMs people say they agree with me yadda yadda yadda.

My simple question is why should i stick my neck out to discuss the issues everybody knows about and just doesn't want to touch. I have better things to do in life than argue about a forum and its supposed future.

SYM is fun? Yes. I learnt alot from SYM? Yes. But if people have issues of respect for each other and don't like each other and they tell me why should i be the only one to step out and speak about it?

People know of the spammer and serious poster issue for years now. Yet nobody has the courage to take it head on. I did so today and trust me it won't be pretty for me come tomorrow.

Luis i am off for the day. Chat with you tomorrow. Did you get the WoW meets Porn e-mail i sent you?

[Hill-Shatar]

People say there are oldies, mods, newbies etc. That is bs. There are two groups on SYM where this whole bloody controversy is focused.

1. Spammers
2. Serious posters.

I post in both serious (not as much anymore) and spam threads (those posts are funnier, take less time to read and less time to post while at work) so I don't see where I fit in. In fact, very few members participate only in one or the other.

SYM survived and will survive with both. People just need to be more tolerant.

'It is not the strongest, nor the most intelligent who survive, but the one most responsive to change.' - Unfortunately, I forget who said that.

However i want to give an example. Chu is hilarious. I find his wacky sense of humor and random bs entertaining. I can easily say most people did not in the past. They have opened and accepted Chu now and nobody has any anything negative to say anymore.

But that is what annoys the hell out of me. If chu had started posting in 2001 he would be readily accepted with no problems. Now people make this distinction of oldie or newbie or spammer and serious poster. I see no reason for these retarded demarcations, because people obviously seem to take them seriously and to heart.

Well, after being run through the gauntlet by Waverly, Weasel and the rest of the merry band, but I see what you mean. What is interesting is that many think that sometimes, posters who are newer than others simply have not read back. When chu (as an example) first came, he had no idea what the Heathen Citadel was, most likely. Around 4 months ago, he had read a lot of the SLURR's, as have I. We are not totally clueless, which, I have noticed both here but mostly in other OT forums on other boards, is a constant belief.

Spammer or serious poster, it doesn't really matter, one more personm I am happy to see when I pop on to GB.

Anyway i think i have done enough damage for the night. I am going to love to see what is said in a few hours.

First of all, I just want to say, it wasn't me...

On the topic of welcoming newbies, I try to PM every new member that shows up on the browser (Under the "newest member" heading.) to welcome them to gamebanshee, and invite them to SYM and the Spam Factory.

I used to welcome new members who posted, and sometimes they would wander down for a hello, but it seems that most come through quickly and disapear for some time, if they ever reappear at all. Others stay, if just for the PMs, like Keltoi did (allthough she is now busy with work and getting ready for christmas). How long they stay does not matter, but it is worth seeing new faces coming in and stopping by for a word or two.

When I first got here, some members liked me, and some initially didn't take well to some of my posts. In other words, not everyone went out of their way to open their arms and make sure I felt my needs were being met.

This I found interesting. Everyone has been talking about how easily things were accepted, but a member clearly remembers otherwise. I think this just further's that nothing has really changed.

Why should they? They knew me as well as I knew them, which meant they didn't know me at all.

Another point by Bloodstalker. We welcome them with open arms? That seems kind of freaky to me. We should be polite, but do new members expect to have enthusiastic PMs filling their boxes? Probably not. A simple 'Welcome' as a side note now is good for me, or, if they seem interesting to me, I may make the note a little longer, or sometimes, I may send a PM.

Did you get the WoW meets Porn e-mail i sent you?

I see that is spreading quite nicely.

[Phreddie]

Hold on, since when were there two 'castes' of people on SYM, Serious or Spammer. I myself post in time to time in serious threads, but I keep myself to political threads, i know little of science, but political threads pop up less and less, because it is perpetually the same debate over the same people, and until there is a regime change in Washington, AMerica wont have any one knew to talk about, and so i wont have much to talk about either, I dont follow polotics in other countries because following them here is bad enough... and i still spam, alot.
Im not goiung to name names, seeing as I dont know all the names, but their are many serious spammer hybrids, categorizing them like oyu did CM ( and Im pointing a finger at those in the shadows behind you, although since your neck is stuck out, I will jsut use you as a martyr until more identfiy themselves, no personal offense emant) is just wrong, you post in serious threads, ive seen you, yet you also spam, you did it in the past and you still do it today, albeit on a slightly smaller scale. (remeber todays and the past drive by spammings?)


I'll say this, and this is what I believe, take it as the word of one of the Newest of the New to SYM:

There are two Seperate Kingdoms of SYM, that of Serious, and that of Spam. They cooexist peacefully, Neither offending the other in the open, intermingling at tiems when apropriate, The Spam threads (HC and SF, i know specifically SF) have had Serious discussions, and there has been some lighthearted Spam in the Serious threads, depending on the nature of the topic, spam may be apropriate, mentioned in an aside, a comical incident related to the topic, or something that cropped up in the mind while reading, but still having an ontopic post. The apropriateness of the Spam is determined by the Guidelins of this Site, and the disgression and judgement of the Poster. This is how I have seen SYM of old in my wanderings through the archives, and this is how i wish SYM of now to be, not for the old members, I believe the problems that Ik felt when he posted this thread had nothing to do ith oldies and newbies, but it was takent hat way, I believe that the problem has come in the way we can post, tolerance is needed, a little mroe freedom, and people shall be happier.

If a few of the scientists are debating something, you, the reader, read something and find a typo that is hilarious, post a link to the page, or post, and mention what you found funny, In another thread, dont start a new thread but perhaps post it in the SF, a nice place where an extra post or two of a comical incident is ne'er frowned upo, unless of course it breaks forum rules.

those are my thoughts, now i wnat my penny.

[Ravager]

[QUOTE=CM]1. Spammers
2. Serious posters.

The spammers don't care about the serious threads don't want to participate and just generally wish to spam to high heaven. Just general relaxed chit chat for no reason other than to post. They don't participate in serious threads and certainly don't see why the serious threads should be considered no spam. SYM should be light hearted and fun - which basically means excessive amounts of spam and general nonsense.

The serious posters want to discuss threads in peace without having them bumped to the 3rd page due to the excessive spam. Secondly they feel that spam is generally a waste of time and should be curtailed in favor of serious mature discussions. (Both statements above are fact and you all can do a search for threads on the matter. I personally agree with the first statement. A serious thread being bumped to page three due to spam is bloody annoying).[/QUOTE]

I think that's an incredible generalisation, I'm sure that many people would stick me firmly in the 'spammer' bracket, though I (and I'm sure many others) have no problem with serious threads existing. I also understand the reason for no spam in what is clearly a serious topic and I follow this to the best of my ability or at the very least do not try to start the degredation of a thread to spam.

Also I see this whole sensitivity thing being bandied about and I'm wondering if this is a reference to my experience in the link provided.
The events in that link happened over a month after I joined and had started regularly posting so I'd say that I had already settled into a rhythm and had an understanding of what SYM is.
When I first looked at SYM I saw the Heathen Citadel, that being the thread which was virtually always top of SYM before and after I joined GB. I remember being intimidated by it's size and having no idea how to start in such a thread or what the people would be like, especially considering back then was my first forum experience.
I was politely welcoming and felt accepted, I wasn't expecting everyone to fall over themselves to make me welcome or anything like that and it exceeded my expectations. The events in the link I provided stung me and showed a side of SYM I didn't like, of course everyone loses their temper now and again, but that doesn't mean everything continues normally as a result from that. Anyway, I don't and never did blame such an experience on a specific group, there were many supporting people, not just those who were new (ish) but some support from those who would be defined in some people's eyes as 'oldies' (though I also name no-one here).

Anyway, since then I've met lots of nice people on SYM, both from the 'new' and 'old' crowds and I don't bracket them into specific groups and say I don't like these people because they do this or like another group because they do something in a different way. I judge on an individual basis and try to welcome new people in, knowing how intimidating the entrance can be while trying to respect everyone's opinions and/or preferences.

[CM]

Wow. Alot of replies. I can understand why you guys don't see the spammer/serious issue break up. How can i put this without naming names? If i could name names i could easily show you the dividing line for the "future" of SYM

Anyway forget that. I will try to put some perspective on this as best as i can but tomorrow. I am going to wait for more flames on this matter before i post

Btw Hill you want that Wow meets Porn link? Its a hilarious in game video. Brilliant song

[Phreddie]

Just wanted to offer some insight here, this sounds alot like the problems we have with cliques in school, i.e. jocks, preps, goths, emo, band and arts geeks, I.B. people... although refer to my above post i dont think that these cliques are the real probelm.

[CM]

You do have cliques in SYM. But they are not oldies or newbies etc. I mean i don't discriminate against who i attack Its more on the nature of SYM.

Right now I can not say alot of stuff i want to say because some of this information was given in confidence or through private channels. *sigh* this is such a hard issue to discuss without blowing the head off of everything and just starting a general flame war.

Lets try this delicately. Anybody here know Kayless?