Poll: Pollitical Beliefs vs Allignment

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Thu May 17, 2001 9:00 am

Abortion....
A very easy thing to say when you are a male (the fact that I am a male does have little thing to what I am about to post) and dont have to get the problems that it have, even someone that aborts sometimes dont have a choise.
Do you KNOW what it is to be subject to a abortion, DO YOU.
Its not a easy thing to do, so you and anyone else that thinks that it have the RIGHT to tell another people what to do sould SHUT UP, you DONT KNOW WHAT A PERSON THAT GONE BY THAT PATH GONE BY.

now guns.
My country example.
Here there is several weapons licenses, the ones for hunters (Here is normal to say that we got more hunters that rabbits) can have hunting rifles and weapons for hunting purposes, there is anoter, more dificult license for general weapons that is only for people that have jobs that are dangerouse and its for selfdenfense, it can buy small arms.
The fact is that when the police aprends weapons, most are revolvers (not automatic weapons) and hunting rifles, the most dangerouse thing that I ever seen on TV was a shotgun.

Anatres · Post by **Anatres** » Thu May 17, 2001 9:12 am

@Vivien; Thank you for having the courage to post (this does not in any way cast aspersions on the women who have not posted!). I'd like to point out that it is (at least in the US) the liberal view is for abortion (on demand) and against the death penalty. No insult intended. EDIT: Also, the teenage female body (after about 15) is most suited for childbearing. Far more so than the 40 year old body that has suffered the ravages of ageing.

@Drak'; There are some of us who have gone through the process that choose to reserve our comments. Please don't help this thread deteriorate with too much vehemence. You are entitled to have strong views on this subject. It is a very emotional issue.

[ 05-17-2001: Message edited by: Anatres ]

hermetic · Post by **hermetic** » Thu May 17, 2001 9:21 am

I'm sorry if I offended any feminists out there. I was just trying to bring politics back into this discussion by waxing insanely in a mildly amusing way. I guess I was wrong and abortion really is an important issue and not just a front to draw our attention away. I shouldn't poke fun at a subject which affects such a tiny percentage of the world's population on a regular basis.
What am I saying? Folks, consider me the saviour of this thread, humour me. Stop discussing such an inane topic as abortion. Break free of the spins that the 80% liberal democrat media tries to throw at you! Heh

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Thu May 17, 2001 9:22 am

Anatres: But I am liberal in every other way, but call me whatever, as I don't mind liberal or conservative. *shrug*

I don't think abortion or religion should determine political status. I'm a member of the green party if that explains anything

I realize that most teenagers getting abortions are older than that, but I also feel that 12 is too young to be going through what a friend in seventh grade had to go through. Because of that, I feel that under a certain age, though the girl is able to get pregnant...it just seems harsh on her emotionally and physically...

I make no comments as to older women vs younger women...just was bringing a personal view into it...

Edit: Anatres, I think you are misunderstanding my post.

I am just trying to say that it is a complex issue, sometimes personal, and very tough to talk about. I brought various things into to add background, but not to make generalizations about anything

I respect the intelligence you have added to this discussion so far.

[ 05-17-2001: Message edited by: Vivien ]

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu May 17, 2001 9:26 am

There are some of us who have gone through the process that choose to reserve our comments.

Yes I do. Growing up and living in the world means making chooses that sometimes are cruel in other peoples views. But they are mine and my wife chooses.

Anatres · Post by **Anatres** » Thu May 17, 2001 9:39 am

@Vivien; I agree that 12 is way too young to endure childbirth/child raising. But that does prompt me to wonder the circumstances surrounding that particular pregnancy.

@Weasel; yes, this issue, along with many other issues, is most definately a personal issue. That's why my position is that your choices (in this regard) are none of my business and I have no place commenting on the rightness or wrongness of that choice.

@Drak'; concerning gun control; I'll restate my position as a Constitutionalist - the Second Amendment (and all the rest of the Bill of Rights) are sacrosanct in my book. No, the average hunter doesn't hunt with an assault rifle. But the average citizen owning said weapon may cause the government pause in it's consideration to impose certain legislation on us.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu May 17, 2001 9:46 am

@ Anatres:....I believe I'm a Constitutionalist too

Anatres · Post by **Anatres** » Thu May 17, 2001 9:55 am

@Weasel; good. We need more of like minds lest we loose all our freedoms. Or see the precepts of this country warped beyond recognition.

I believe it was Benjamin Franklin that said 'Anyone willing to give up freedom for security, deserves neither'.

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Thu May 17, 2001 10:04 am

Anatres: I am now slightly confused. I think I understand the basics of what you are sharing...but is there a party aligned with your politcal views? And what views are attacking a 'consitutionalists' views? Not arguing, merely confused.

Anatres · Post by **Anatres** » Thu May 17, 2001 10:27 am

@Vivien; No there's not a party as such associated with the Constitutionalst views. Most of us just consider ourselves Republicans (conservative/moderate). Since there is a segment of the Democrats (liberals) that are advocating the repeal of the Second Ammendment to the constitution. There are also us that believe that 'to provide for the welfare of the people' (I'm paraphrasing here) does not advocate a welfare state or promote the concepts of socialism.

Let's just say that I, personally, don't believe that the Constitution is a 'living breathing' document that can be changed at the whim of a minority view. I also find it disturbing that the majority of citizens don't give a whit about Franklin's statment quoted above and are more than willing to accept the status quo because it's easier.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu May 17, 2001 10:33 am

Most of us just consider ourselves Republicans (conservative/moderate).

Yep

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Thu May 17, 2001 10:35 am

Anatres: I'm again not trying to argue, just curious (I'm an open minded person, always interested in new view points).

I have seen the debate as to the second ammendmant, and really can't say that I know which way it should go...again...tough decision...

If men should have the right to bear arms, how should one help control needless violence? The debate tends to focus on guns being so easily obtained that 'criminals' are easily getting them...

The 'liberals' then say that we should restrict gun supply in general, thus criminals won't get them. In my mind, I think criminals will get them anyway, maybe?

How do you think we should handle this?

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Thu May 17, 2001 10:38 am

Yes, I gone a bit of in the abortion but that was personal...

Well you are intitle to your views about the subjects in the constitution but most guns that are aprended by the police here were stolen, the fact is that assault guns being sold to the general public is in my view a stupid, if your house is going to be stolen, is not going to be by a ARMY, a single revolver sould be enough to self defense, if you inturduce assault guns in the market, it most likely to be used by the bad guys, next thing there is a arms race to see who have the biggest gun in the market.
The fact is that gun control is something that all is being enforced already, also there must be stronger laws about guns, do you know that if you buy a gun in a gun show you dont have to register that weapon?
That is something that sould be changed in my view.
About welfare, all "tests" in europe about private welfare have resulted in worst welfare, so I stick by the "socialist" side.

Anatres · Post by **Anatres** » Thu May 17, 2001 10:49 am

@Vivien; I know you are just curious and an open mind is always best.

On the gun issue; Criminals will always have access to firearms or they'll revert to knives, swords, baseball bats or whatever (then we should ban those too?). Gun laws only affect the law abiding citizenry as they are the only ones that government can identify (through licensing, registration or membership in particular organizations i.e. the NRA) as having guns. The evidence shows that everywhere strict gun control, or the outright confiscation of guns, has been exercised that the incidence of crime has escalated rather than declined. I would like to see a Federally supported concealed carry law. Wherein any citizen, under the auspices of training mandates, could carry a firearm. It's just common sense to assume that most muggers, rapists etc. would think twice about vicimizing someone if the individual could be armed. This is a very tough subject because any concealed carry law is a form of registration in it's own right. And it brings up the need for many restictions on just where one can go armed....

Obviously this is not any easy issue to resolve but outright banning is also not the answer. (IMO)

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Thu May 17, 2001 10:57 am

I say if a criminal is caught with a gun, after murdering someone. The proof is there, ssssst out. He's dead. Why should tax payers, have to pay for someone who is going to kill again?

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Thu May 17, 2001 11:01 am

Originally posted by Anatres:
<STRONG>@Vivien; I know you are just curious and an open mind is always best.
(IMO)</STRONG>

Anatres: You see, my pet peeve is people telling me what party I belong to, and what my views are

That's why I always try to be a bit careful

I don't know most of the time EXACTLY which way I fall (still thinking things through politically for myself)...so how can THEY know what I think??

Back onto the topic:

I see your point of view. Although , I get a bit scared by the idea of people carrying weapons all over, but I suppose criminals are anyway...

Hmm...I just don't know about this one. I'll have to think about it more. Thanks for the point of view

Drak: You surprise me with your opinions

I also did not know about the welfare/socialism facts.

Anatres · Post by **Anatres** » Thu May 17, 2001 11:03 am

@Drak'; assault guns owned by the general population are not generally used for self or home defense. Their presence in the hands of the law abiding citizenry is meant as a deterrent to tyranny. (I personally have a 12ga shotgun loaded with bird-shot - it won't penetrate two layers of wallboard so I won't accidently kill one of my children - for my home defense weapon of choice).

I abhore the concept of socialism as it is nothing more than the redistribution of wealth under the guise of social conscienceness. I work hard for my wages and feel that I do that to better the life of my family. Not to support needle exchange programs or the concept of single parenthood. I pay my taxes so that there can be programs that educate people in the lower economic strata so that they can better their lives. I believe in a healthy work ethic, old fashioned as that may be. As long as there is a pervasive attitude of something for nothing there will be a portion of the population that will abuse that. Besides, once you reach a certain point of 'taxation for the welfare state' most entrepurship and econonic expansion will cease. There will be no point in working hard and 'getting ahead' if all that means is that more of your income is taken by the State. In my opinion, socialism leads to totalitarianism and history shows us that that form of 'government' is doomed to failure (the Soviet Union).

Anatres · Post by **Anatres** » Thu May 17, 2001 11:07 am

Off topic, I need to take my son to his graduation ceremonies. Keep up the debate as this is intercourse in it's (second) best form

.

I'll be back...

White Rabbit · Post by **White Rabbit** » Thu May 17, 2001 9:37 pm

Abortion? My topic has gone horrible wrong! God help us if the Republicans get their way, without abortion think of all the unwanted babies out there. And just think what abortion could have done for Ms. Bush. If she had an abortion we wouldn't need to deal with our monkey minded president.

Anatres · Post by **Anatres** » Fri May 18, 2001 8:35 am

@White Rabbit; I suppose that you would have rather seen Sore/Loserman win?

[ 05-18-2001: Message edited by: Anatres ]