The improved guide to cheese

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Oct 08, 2002 3:10 pm

like my new sig????

i got this bunny thing going on, since i discovered sluggy freelance..

bun bun rules...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 1:26 am

almost forgot this rather nasty and annoying abuse...

a swishy or haer cannot cast spells above lv 6, but can memorize 7,8,9th level spells, right? wrong, i think, but for some unknown reason i have never tested....cause i hate bards....

now a ring of wiz and circlet of netheril should add spell slots at the high levels, right? so i think you get with circlet ninth level slots for bards....

give it a try someone who likes bards...not me!!!!

now, here is a interesting speculation jason commented on, if you play kelsey, you get as a part of the plot a amulet of wild surge....

see where i am going??? have haer equipp amulet, and using potions of genius memorize high level spells,,, use amulet to cast wild surge, recharge with gem bag, until battle is over OR you turn him female, or rabbit, or chicken or petrify the little bugger....i see it as a win win situation....

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 11:49 am

Circlet of Netheril doesn't add slots to bards
About Endless Spells, just read it!

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:59 pm

thats annoying, circlet not adding spells to bards...

oh well, another good game engine abuse down the drain...

and yes i finally read endless spells...still like the image cast wish better....

some rather serious abuse in both ways....of course, i just realized why you chose pword stun or kill, image is paralysed already, so stun will do nothing, and kill is a rather limited in scope...ever assigned the spell "cutscene p word kill" to a sorc....????

OMG...kill dragons with one spell, demiliches, like cntrl y on a spell table,...just no fun after a while...

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 2:26 pm

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
see where i am going??? have haer equipp amulet, and using potions of genius memorize high level spells,,, use amulet to cast wild surge, recharge with gem bag, until battle is over OR you turn him female, or rabbit, or chicken or petrify the little bugger....i see it as a win win situation....

I never really had anything against him, except for the whole aerie thing, but I can relate to it via Anomen

Quite a lot of cheese we got here now, yes?
Wonder if anybody will ever beat User to most cheese in one post?

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 12:25 am

the worst part is i think i still know some more...will post later....

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 3:35 pm

and yes i finally read endless spells...still like the image cast wish better....

some rather serious abuse in both ways....of course, i just realized why you chose pword stun or kill, image is paralysed already, so stun will do nothing, and kill is a rather limited in scope...ever assigned the spell "cutscene p word kill" to a sorc....????

?????
User, the Power Words are there to recharge, they won't have any
ill effect... they're chosen for their level, the single target
and quick casting time.

Why would you prefer trying wishes, outside of combat and without
guarantees that it'll work?
That way you go in battle, unleash hell all the times you want
(even in the SAME fight!) and go on as nothing is happened...
And if you read the tips is even more insanely powerful, and safe,
than it seems...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 12:44 am

OMG...its the level, right??? the spell level and the fact these spells , even p word stun is harmless if you have free action...oh my...oh my...the sheer abuse is really really nasty....

thats really tasty....

thats one spicy meatball...

burp....

very very nice...a full evolution of a really cool idea...can you get ninth level spells back with p word kill????

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:14 am

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
even p word stun is harmless if you have free action...

Erm... I think the Spell Trap is what does it, actually. You know, this being a Spell Trap combo where you let your clones cast spells at you to soak with your Spell Trap?

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 7:07 am

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
burp....

User! You can´t just go around burping in other people´s threads! Behave, will ya?

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 8:27 am

Indeed Spell Trap grants protection, it's obvious...
As a side effect, you get spells recharged.

Now the interesting thing is that if you trap a spell only partially
(that is, you had already almost comsumed the 30 levels), not only you are
still protected, you still get a FULL recharge!!!

Yes, a single Spell Trap may recharge up to 38 spell levels...
When I noticed this testing the spell for Xyx, I started thinking
something nasty...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:01 pm

of course, you ALL know your sorc pc, or tashia or kelsey should NOT have spell trap memorized????

use the staff of magi, save your 9th level slots for timestop, chain contingency shapechange and other good spells....

use the staff of magi, and after tashia is recharged, stick staff in bag of holding for immediate recharge....

still more and more staff of magi abuse...now, by far the most abusive item in the game....

oh, yeah, if your sorc or tashia or kelsey is installed with sola, you might have chosen spell strike to take care of some of wes's nastier creations with multiple spell immunity stacks...i wonder if spell strike will work with staff of magi, the staff spell immunity is immune to spell strike, you know....

yeah, the only questions i still have is multiple power word stun or blind will they still recharge your 9th level slots????

and what about aerie, can this recharge her cleric spells??? i suspect only the cleric spell wonderous recall will be the only way to recharge cleric slots...

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 7:37 pm

Another use of the Staff of Magi:

Get Vhailor's Helm and Bag of Holding. Cast Simularcrum and have the Sim cast Gate (or Cacofiend or Summon Fiend) from a scroll. Since you both have the Staff, both are ignored by the demon. Kill it for experience, then put the Helm in the bag to recharge and repeat. (I usually only do this when soloing so you may need to move other party members out of sight).

This works without the helm, of course, but you have to memorize Simulacrum and rest. However, with a Sorceror you can get quite a few Sims for every rest period.

On the other hand you can use the Staff's Spell Trap to get unlimited spells. Which makes me wonder... since you have to select a target for the Gate to appear, can the Sim cast this at your PC (thus recharging the Spell Trap)?

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 12:53 am

i couldnt get endless spells to work,,,,just on a plain system with full eng tob patch, balderdash, item upgrade and immie mod....

this reminds me, i tried recharging via spell trap over a year ago, never got it to work, and gave up...has anyone actually gotten it to work???

was using, cast spell trap, scroll spell trap, and staff....

using p word blind, magic missile, and flame arrow.,..

it just did not increment my memorized spells for sorc, bun bun and my thief wild mage, immie...

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 3:49 am

Follow EXACTLY the steps and it'll work.
I've tested that countless times.

Spell Trap MUST be memorized if you want to recharge it.
You can't recharge the Staff's one with spell, you may indeed try
with that Bag Cheese of yours, but I can't guarantee that it'll work.

Power Word: Blind won't recharge anything, it has AREA effect!
And it couldn't recharge 9th level spells anyway, being only an 8th
level spell...
Again, follow the steps and it will work.
Nothing is left to chance or luck there...

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 12:29 pm

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
of course, you ALL know your sorc pc, or tashia or kelsey should NOT have spell trap memorized????

use the staff of magi, save your 9th level slots for timestop, chain contingency shapechange and other good spells....

Nope, that's sooo last year now. The new Spell Trap looks good in memory.

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
stick staff in bag of holding for immediate recharge....

There's no need to resort to this kind of cheese. Practically cheating. Why not just CLUA in KILSWORD and Ctrl+Y everything to death?

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
multiple power word stun or blind will they still recharge your 9th level slots????

Of course not. One spell trapped recharges one spell of equal (if possible) or lower (otherwise) level.

Originally posted by JackOfClubs
since you have to select a target for the Gate to appear, can the Sim cast this at your PC (thus recharging the Spell Trap)?

I think that only targets the spot underneath your PC, not your PC. So, no. Don't let that stop you from trying; I might be wrong. It happens. Sometimes.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:29 pm

i figured out where i was wrong, and learned something interesting...

first, p word blind is a area effect spell. i thought like chain lightning or call lightning, it must be a point to multipoint spell, one target is hit by spell, and it spreads out from there as the creature hit by spell then casts to the nearby enemies, but it is actually really a area effect spell, that requires you to target a single enemy....unlike every other area effect spell i can think of, like inc cloud, it cannot be cast on a non enemy target...very confusing, thus it cannot be spell turned....or even spell trapped...even more reason to like p word blind..so the only real defense, besides jan jansen techno goggles, is spell immunity and improved inv...as mislead is not going to defend you, if the clone is close enough to be the new target, as per chain contingency rules, the area effect should hit the lich nearby....( did you know jansen tech goggles is blind immunity item?? almost only one in game, xyx posted this info literally a year ago...)

second, i was using bun bun 8 to test this, and she has constant effect spell turning on all the time...if you got spell turning and spell trap on at the same time, either with spells or if you had deleted clck26.itm file from your override directory to get the old mirror cloak back after installing tob, if you have both spells on in the theory what ever is not spell trapped is bounced back to caster, wrong...

spell turning takes PRECIDENCE over spell trap, so it will bounce the spell if both are on....i suspect spell turning used in combination with any spell defences will always bounce spells (like spell shield, globes and other useless spells...), so once you delete clck26.itm file from ovverride, you need never memorize spell defences again...

WARNING...i dont know if wes has fixed this bug, i did post info on his forum, but if you delete clck26.itm file from ovverride in the game, to get the old mirror cloak, this has caused improved irenicus to crash...in the final battle, he steals your crom, and other powergaming items to even out the odds, and if you had deleted the clck26.itm file, it caused my game to hang....luckly i had read the spoilers, so i copied it back from the place i had moved it to, and all was fine...

as xyx said, endless spells works every time, but wish you have to pay the bet and takes your chances...

oh yeah, xyx, the reason i mentioned cutscene power word kill was because i was wondering if the cutscene power word kill could be used in place of the regular power word kill, nope, it is simply not stopped by any spell defences i have tried with it...evil evil spell...

but even wish cheese can be made almost ok, by using images and simmies to cast wish, you can boost the number of tries to around 30-50 or so, if you want, and so far i have found, in every time i cast the spell, that at least one choice has no bad consequences for the party...or negligable bad consequences...so imho, wish is almost as good as endless spells, especially, if party is tired...but there are quite a few times when all i need is to rememorize my 9th level spells, dragons and chain contingencies, so endless spells is really tasty...

hey, thatsa one spicy meatball....

burpa burp burp burp,

burpa burp burpa burp....

sorry jae, i was trying to burp out the tune for god save the queen...couldnt quite do it...

giggle....

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 4:40 am

I knew it it was your fault with your superhacked chars!

but there are quite a few times when all i need is to rememorize my 9th level spells, dragons and chain contingencies, so endless spells is really tasty...

The original goal was to get infinite spells, specificly, by Xyx's request, infinite Time Stops...
This was accomplished, even better, all the Time Stops are chained together with
no hope for an enemy reaction

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 12:42 pm

how can i forget the most tasty and elegant cheese i have ever created???

have a mage heavy party, and pause the game...have each mage who does NOT have a casting speed enhancing item, like amulet of power, drow elven mail, or robe of veccy cast sunfire at the same identical time...

if everyone else is protected from fire, during the very very small duration a npc or pc casts sunfire, he she is totally protected from sunfire, thus your party becomes, temporary, a area ovverlapping kill zone....

if you place two mages, immie and aerie next to each other , have each cast sunfire at the same time, during the duration each mage is sunfiring, they are invulnerable to each other's damage radius....

its a limited application spell, with little practical use, except with a fire protected party, for anti ambush situations,,,,also does not offer significantly greater damage than a chained sunfire, but it sure looks cool...

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 2:08 pm

Don´t know if I´d consider the sunfire trick cheesy... It´s legal, rpg-wise, I think...?

Have it your way User!

...That´s one spicy hairbhaal!

*BUUUUURPA*

*Mreow*