Dragon Age vs. Oblivion

[Xandax]

How many years ago was the last time you checked? You'd be surprised, I think. A lot of the fanboys, having the persistence of fruitflies, have moved onto other games. The last few threads I've seen asking about Oblivion or comparing Oblivion to Morrowind have turned up quite a bit of thoughtful comment. I was surprised.

My point was that since most of us dislike vanilla Oblivion quite a lot, you're not going to find a lot of people praising its qualities, rightly or wrongly, here in this thread. But there are a number of people who enjoy vanilla Oblivion that could speak sanely to some of these things these days, on Bethsoft's board. This is accurate on both points.
<snip>

But you still set up the premise that because some of us dislike the game, our opinion is somehow more biased or invalid to those points of Oblivion then if we liked the game.
If our opinions and points are "wrong" because you find them negative, then the people speaking "sanely to some of these things, these day" can be just as invalid because they like the game.

Liking the game or disliking the game has no automatic bearing on the validity of the opinions of the game.
I was actually somewhat taken by surprise that you even suggested this - seems out of character.

[Excalibur_2102]

I think I'm not getting my point across. It's that being in the majority or the minority means absolutely nothing, one way or the other. There have been plenty of instances where a very small minority were factually correct, and the overwhelming majority were wrong; and the opposite is true, too. So just telling somebody, "You're in the minority," really doesn't establish anything, other than that fewer people agree with them than otherwise. Besides, as this isn't a matter of fact but of personal taste, majority and minority status doesn't matter much at all.

So bassically we agree to disagree. You're right I know, in fact I say the same thing on other forums. Ive mainly been a lurker here but ive been around for a while and respect most of the regular posters including Lady Dragonfly. Its just he/she seemed a little harsh on both DA:O and Oblivion for that matter.

[fable]

But you still set up the premise that because some of us dislike the game, our opinion is somehow more biased or invalid to those points of Oblivion then if we liked the game.
If our opinions and points are "wrong" because you find them negative, then the people speaking "sanely to some of these things, these day" can be just as invalid because they like the game.

I think you misread both my comment and the context. I was responding to a post in which the point was made that Oblivion had nothing to offer, since nobody in this thread (and by implication, in these forums) thought so. My point is that it's not a matter of us being "wrong" or "right," but of being a group of people who have opinions tending strongly as a group (in this instance) in one direction. So if you want opinions tending another way, you'd look elsewhere.

Liking the game or disliking the game has no automatic bearing on the validity of the opinions of the game.
I was actually somewhat taken by surprise that you even suggested this - seems out of character.

Exactly--it would have been, if I'd done that.

[Xandax]

<snip>
Exactly--it would have been, if I'd done that.

Actually - you did:
If you want to know what it truly has to offer, you go to Bethsoft's own site, where there are some honest, intelligent assessments of its value vs those of Morrowind that finds more in its favor.

Saying there aren't honest, intelligent assessments here, if you wanted to know what it truly had to offer

But I understand what you meant now.

[Lady Dragonfly]

I dont know why you hate the game, but oh well, Im enjoying it and thats all that matters I spose.

We are entertained by different games and that's fine by me.
Not repeating everything said about majority/minority issue and "personal taste", please allow me to answer your question more in-depth and explain why I think DAO is a deeply flawed, disappointing game.

To make it easy, I will simply list some of my concerns:

1. overall consolized MMORPG-like design (not a compliment in my book);

2. generic setting with elves and dwarves, which looks and feels like a NWN2 clone, contrary to Bio’s claim to originality;

3. linear, cliched plot where you are gang-pressed into service as a Grey Warden Kamikaze destined to save the world from the unspeakable evil represented by a lackluster generic beast (aka Final Boss) and its generic LOTR-esque horde;

4. awful anti-climatic ending (in my opinion);

5. level scaling, never a good thing because it kills any sense of achievement;

6. foisted npc’s;

7. repetitive, unavoidable, boring as hell combat the sheer amount of which kills any desire to replay the game unless you prefer to “enjoy” your railroaded epic adventures on easy (can’t blame you – combat is as tedious as it gets);

8. poor area design with shoddily painted props, invisible corridors and conventional npc’s glued to their spots. Denerim, the capital city for Christ sake, is a complete failure – compare it to Athkatla and you will know what I mean;

9. messed-up skill/talent system where

a) combat tactics (i.e., number of slots) to reduce micromanagement (does not benefit npc, only the player, allegedly, but in fact is mostly worthless) is a skill
b) everybody can steal and make traps but only rogue can open locks
c) magic is insanely overpowered. You just keep spawning area spells and cone of ice, area spell and cone of ice, area spells and cone of ice… ad nauseam
d) you have access to unlimited healing/mana
e) you can create potions during combat

10. generic out-off-the-bag/off-the-billboard (a mind-numbing MMORPG feature) fetch/kill side-quests;

11. dumbed-down approval/gift system that let you get a favorable approval rating even if you NEVER have a particular npc in your party;

12. a pathetic attempt at “maturity” and “darkness” with ludicrous blood splatters (you are covered with blood even after exterminating a few critters), tasteless lulz, slutty outfits and laughable gay sex - stuff rightfully rated as pandering to the lowest common denominator;

13. immortal henchmen;

14. bland lore packed in numbered Codex;

15. dialogues which only "merit" is verbosity.

Not only are several nicely done quests and certain c&c regrettably overshadowed by all this BS (New or Old, it is still S), but the linearity, crappy ever-present combat, utter lack of originality and blatant LOTR, NWN2 and The Witcher (and who knows what else since it is generic fantasy) rip off make this game a mediocre "don't bother until it hits the bargain bin" romp. Does not even approach the level of BG2.

DAO, one of the Most Overrated Products of PR Machine. Rejoice.

[Stworca]

5. level scaling, never a good thing because it kills any sense of achievement;

Nothing beats Oblivion in level-scaling!

But aside from that i'm affraid that i have to agree with Lady Dragonfly on many points she (i assume?) has made. Dragon Age surely is 10 times better than Neverwinter 2, and every game is better than Oblivion.. But DA did not live up to its hype for me.

A good game, and worth trying out, but not nearly as good as i thought it will be

[fable]

Actually - you did:
If you want to know what it truly has to offer, you go to Bethsoft's own site, where there are some honest, intelligent assessments of its value vs those of Morrowind that finds more in its favor.

Saying there aren't honest, intelligent assessments here, if you wanted to know what it truly had to offer

But I understand what you meant now.

Good, because you're still focusing on the first part of the sentence, and missing the "vs those of Morrowind that finds more in it's favor" part. So my point is that a person who is looking for comparisons between Oblivion and a game it does resemble, Morrowind--as opposed to one it doesn't, DA:O--and want to see good things said about Oblivion, should check out Bethsoft's site. Not here.

That's not to say there aren't a few fanboys left in the Bethsoft woodpile who occasionally jump out long enough to call something "the bestest ever," and to damn everything else. But most of those have moved onto Fallout 3--and judging by some of the comments I've seen in Bioware's social forum, definitely DA:O, too. It's disgusting over there, frankly.