A more serious SYM thread (no spam)

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:39 am

[QUOTE=GregtheSleeper]
Is SYM dying, or just relaxing a bit?

It will change... Get over it...[/QUOTE]

Hmmm... Well when I first began posting in SYM in 2001 I could leave the place, come back 24 hours later and the entire first page would be full of new threads and new posts. (and I've always set this at 40, the maximum). The threads were a lively blend of wacky humour and really interesting discussions on more serious issues.
Now.... I'll find perhaps three threads in bold, and usually there's nothing new about two of them.

The place might not be dying, but it is on life support.

Juniper · Post by **Juniper** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:35 pm

I have not had the opportunity to read through all of this....and frankly, i reading back 4-5 pages was really quite enough. I have no idea how it used to be here, or how it was "better" before...I am only aware of how it’s been since I started visiting on regular basis last year. Honestly, I was quite intimidated to make my first posts in SYM, I had never posted in any other forum before...then SF was created (to the chagrin of many, really could that be made any more obvious) during my lurking time, which lasted close to a month....and I found a place that I felt comfortable enough to make my first posts in.

I feel for any newbie that is reading all of this, and may be a bit apprehensive about making their first posts here, it really gives the impression that "no, it's really not ok if you just want to post in one thread... don't enter into conversation that is "deemed" insightful or thought provoking... for you will contributing to the demise of SYM...." That’s rubbish. And that perceived sentiment is much more uninviting/unwelcoming than the title of any thread.

I have no idea if this line of thought has been posted previously.....sorry if it has and I am just repeating what has already been stated.. I’m just putting in my 2 cents and please, keep the change.

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:43 pm

[QUOTE=dragon wench]Hmmm... Well when I first began posting in SYM in 2001 I could leave the place, come back 24 hours later and the entire first page would be full of new threads and new posts. (and I've always set this at 40, the maximum). The threads were a lively blend of wacky humour and really interesting discussions on more serious issues.
Now.... I'll find perhaps three threads in bold, and usually there's nothing new about two of them.

The place might not be dying, but it is on life support.[/QUOTE]

As nice as that is, it's not really fair to be putting pressure on other people to be posting multiple threads just so the place looks livelier.
And as I said before, posting is a personal choice, by saying you want people to post more you're taking for granted what they do now. I'm sure everyone would complain even more if there was even less activity than currently and yet I see no-one praising the people that do post, whatever thread that is in.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:59 pm

[QUOTE=Ravager] I'm sure everyone would complain even more if there was even less activity than currently and yet I see no-one praising the people that do post, whatever thread that is in.[/QUOTE]

It would be the difference between having a corpse on display in a funeral home and burying it below the ground.

However, this is getting tedious, and I'm tired of repeating myself.
*shrug* do what you will.

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:02 pm

[QUOTE=dragon wench]It would be the difference between having a corpse on display in a funeral home and burying it below the ground.[/QUOTE]

Okay, take the current post count in an average day on SYM and take it away from itself, is that your goal?

Just have a look at that SYM post count per day, that's activity, granted it may not be on the scale you like, but that's what it is anyway. Making other people feel guilty isn't a solution.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:20 pm

[QUOTE=Ravager]Okay, take the current post count in an average day on SYM and take it away from itself, is that your goal?

[/QUOTE]

My goal has been to get people thinking about the problem. I attempted a subtle approach on various occasions but like ostriches, most of you chose to stick your heads in the sand. So, I decided to go for a more brutal and less sensitive strategy. I don't really think the latter has worked either, but at least it has generated a response of some kind.

Is there a solution? I don't know. I think the problem has multiple sources.
*Certain GB members tend to eat people alive when they post more widely in SYM. And (believe it or not) I can actually understand how that might act as a deterrent for newcomers.

*Another problem is that there haven't been a whole slew of games produced that are likely to bring people to the forum. Maybe people posting in the Oblivion forum will eventually make it over here, hard to say.

*The tendency to post heavily in just a few threads, well we've discussed that to death, so I won't belabour the point further.

If you have any ideas that might help I'm all ears.

Fiona · Post by **Fiona** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:33 pm

[QUOTE=dragon wench]My goal has been to get people thinking about the problem. I attempted a subtle approach on various occasions but like ostriches, most of you chose to stick your heads in the sand. So, I decided to go for a more brutal and less sensitive strategy. I don't really think the latter has worked either, but at least it has generated a response of some kind.

Is there a solution? I don't know. I think the problem has multiple sources.
*Certain GB members tend to eat people alive when they post more widely in SYM. And (believe it or not) I can actually understand how that might act as a deterrent for newcomers.

*Another problem is that there haven't been a whole slew of games produced that are likely to bring people to the forum. Maybe people posting in the Oblivion forum will eventually make it over here, hard to say.

*The tendency to post heavily in just a few threads, well we've discussed that to death, so I won't belabour the point further.

If you have any ideas that might help I'm all ears.[/QUOTE]

DW I really meant it when I said I no longer know what we are talking about. You keep mentioning "the problem" but the more this is discussed the less I think there is any concensus amongst those who think there is a problem.

So far as I can tell, you see the problem as people posting exclusively in the SS. You want people to post in more threads and to start more threads. Is that right?

If it is I think I have shown that your impression is not actually true and Lestat has concurred. Now that is not conclusive but we will not get anywhere discussing a problem which does not exist. So I would be glad if you could show me where I am wrong in thinking the SS people do start threads and post in other places. Once you can demonstrate that is really the problem we could start to look for a solution.

I can't see a way forward otherwise.

Darzog · Post by **Darzog** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:37 pm

[quote="dragon wench]However"]

First off, don't get frustrated or discouraged. You don't have to convert everyone or even have everyone support you to have a valid point. You think that prolific posting in multiple threads (and creating new ones) will bring some life back to the forum. Some people disagree.

It doesn't really matter whether you are right, they are right, or a combination of both. Personally I think that each thread does have it's own general life, so multiple threads means more diverse conversations. But the same group of 30 people posting in one thread or 10 threads is still stifling.

You have all made good points. Change takes time. If you want something to change, you have at least provided a spark; now you just have to wait to see if a change is made (and how long it lasts). Coming back from the weekend I've just now caught up on reading new posts.... normally I can get through the new stuff by lunchtime (not reading all posts in spam threads though). And if we weren't having database errors the action would be even higher.

I'm glad this thread was ressurected. Not only has it flourished with input (everytime I finished reading a page, a whole new page of posts had been tacked to the end) but it has brought several people out of the woodworks that are normally silent or absent. So be glad that you've made your point and move on positively. I've gotten a sense of frustration with the last 2-3 pages of posts, but I don't think there needs to be any.

I promise to stop being serious and go back to one-liners in the SS any time now.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:40 pm

Hill and I have already demonstrated clearly that there is a problem.
Now, somebody could not log into SYM for a week, and if it has been a truly active period, there *might* be half a page worth of new threads.

But, I just don't think I care anymore. At one time, I valued SYM, that is no longer the case. There is a reason so many 'old timers' no longer post here, and it isn't just because of real life schedules. I understand how they feel acutely.

EDIT
@Darzog,
thanks, that is actually heartening to read..

Lestat · Post by **Lestat** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:40 pm

Actually DW, I think Rav has a point when he says that the fingering those people that are still posting, however limited, is not really going to help, neither presenting things in somewhat slanted way.

In your bump you said there was a large number of people posting in the SS that don't post a lot outside of it and don't create threads. In fact the posting behaviour of the people that post there is more diverse than that, going from Juni or GoG who post almost not outside SS in SYM to Fiona who hardly can let a SYM thread go by unposted in. In between there are people like me, Rav, Tony, Magrus or Chus who post in quite a few threads outside SS, over somewhat less frequent posters outside as DJ, Aramant to infrequent ones as Slade and Athena.
Theire posting behaviour is not different from the range of posting behaviour of other members, except for the fact that they also post (a lot) in the SS.
As for the posting of and in serious threads, I think that's more related to age than anything else. Younger members, and certainly teenage members seem to be posting less in those threads. And there are quite a few of them among the SS regulars.

But anyway the posting in SS is for me not an alternative to posting in other threads. It's an alternative to lurking until something interesting crops up, on the board or in my mind. And I doubt that for instance the closure of the SS or similar threads would lead to more posting in and of other threads. It would lead to more lurking.

And moreover, why point to those SS people while I see that there are quite often some people, and not exactly shy firsttimers, that are lurking around without posting, coming daily without leaving a trace except their name in the "active members" (oh irony!) box.

And what about those oldies who only rear their head when a fellow oldie posts a thread?

And what about those members that left for other horizons for whatever reasons or WoW?

There are fewer people that post around, fewer "high activity" members and some members have cut down on posting. All leads to less activity and yes of course then the SS will stand out as a last remnant of activity on the board. But that is a consequence of the decrease in activity, not the cause.

ch85us2001 · Post by **ch85us2001** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:50 pm

Let me relate a story.

We closed the SF. The SS is basically the same thing. Post limits, Maybe they work, maybe they don't. However, I am certain they do not work below 500 posts (with a decent amount of people, that is). Look at the Elder Scrolls forums sometime. Very little comraderie, and VERY hard to integrate oneself.

Do what you will.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:50 pm

@Lestat,
I do think a decrease in overall activity certainly is a factor. And you are right, age seems to figure into the equation as well.

It's also possible that the games currently being produced are targeted to younger audiences than they were just a few years ago.

I am not specifically pointing a finger at younger members here, so much as saying that yes, a younger demographic does create a different dynamic and less overall diversity.

Juniper · Post by **Juniper** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:51 pm

*sigh* is it not also a matter of a person coming here spending their time here as they choose?

Lestat · Post by **Lestat** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:59 pm

@ Juni: I don't pass judgment, I just noticed. And wouldn't it be nice to have you everywhere over the place? But you are indeed free to spend your time here as you wish. I named you in the list above just to show the range of diversity there is, and that it is somewhat wrong to lump people together just because they all post regularly in a certain thread.

And I see some more cliquish behaviour with some of the oldies (not you DW, certainly not you) in terms of exclusive attention paying and in-crowd speak. But maybe that's just me.

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:07 pm

I fear a great responsibility for the state pof things rests upon my shoulders. I have been a bad bloodstalker. I have not spread discontent and confusion as I should. I have abandoned the drinking halls. I have let to many pert rear ends go ungroped, many a supple bit of flesh go unoggled. I have not lead a revolution in many months. And I have not fed my crocs and lo, they are now no more. I shall endeavor to make everyones life a suitable Hell from here on in.

now, if some willing female will spank me for my transgressions.

Athena · Post by **Athena** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:28 pm

*spank!* Naughty! *spank* *spank*

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:30 pm

[QUOTE=Athena]*spank!* Naughty! *spank* *spank*
[/QUOTE]

I think it's working, but I'm not quite certain yet. It may take awhile. My sins are many

Athena · Post by **Athena** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:39 pm

I shall have mercy on you since you turned yourself in willingly! *goes for the chains, wraps up the vile creature known as BS, and exfixiates on the task at hand* But you can not get away today, sir! *spank* *spank*

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:45 pm

[QUOTE=Athena]I shall have mercy on you since you turned yourself in willingly! *goes for the chains, wraps up the vile creature known as BS, and exfixiates on the task at hand* But you can not get away today, sir! *spank* *spank*[/QUOTE]

That would have been even more enjoyable minus the big word I had to sound out.

Athena · Post by **Athena** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:47 pm

I'm not even sure if I spelled it right. But it still has the same feeling.

oh, yes