A more serious SYM thread (no spam)

[Hill-Shatar]

Clans? What clans? The only known clans that existed or still exist here were COMM, Rolling Thunder and the like. There is absolutely no SS clan so far as I can tell, yet I keep hearing about this stuff. How can you call something clique-ish when you never make an effort to post there?! I said this once before and was ignored, now I'm saying it again: if you guys feel left out or something, then try your hand there. Don't stand out in the rain and yell at the people indoors because you're wet.

We've been over the clans. The only place that was a real more clannish place was when there was a mass supplanting of many members on the board all at once, like DW, and those people made 'The Harem Tent'. You'll notice that there is little evidence of that tent even existing in the archives unless you happen to go to far down the list looking for... the other... tent.

If something was clique-ish and I posted there, would I consider it cliquish? Besides, I felt a little clique-ish when I visited the SF, but not as much as I do whenever I post in the SS, however rare that is now. You were ignored because I felt it pointless to assume that only those in the clique, clan, or group, whatever you want to call it, can call it those names. I also put my hand heavily into the previous thread, and somewhat into the newer one. If it was OS up here saying the same thing, would it make that much of a difference for you?

So what? You posted there. Alot. More than I.

I was responding to your other 'So What?' comment.

What's to be proud of? What's to be ashamed of for chrissakes?! You were just spamming and (hopefully) having fun. What the frick? Aren't we being a wee-bit dramatic here?

Oh, I had fun, but I missed out on a lot when I spent most of my time posting so much in one thread and not as much in another. Plus, do you think having close to half of my posts in one thread is something I want to carry around with me? It might be something you want, but I happened to find it, to tell you the truth, a little embarrasing.

However, I promise to stop being so dramatic.

Maybe we all need to stop and think more clearly about what is really annoying us (if anything)? Just a thought

I thought that activity was the problem, not threads made... perhaps I just missed something.

The SS- still there...
The oldies- still missing, 'cept for Aegis who I'm sure will be gone within a ten-day...
Buck- Omipotently silent...

Hmmm, doesn't seem like anything's changed to me.

Well, if this thread is still being posted in, then do you think something would have changed? That anyone can really act without the support of the majority?

Oh, and his whole name business is the most absurd thing I've ever heard... I could just as easily analyze the name "Dragon Wench" in order to make a similar point if you want. Probably a more damaging one too.

A person's name and thread name is different. For example, how about we name a thread Hill-Shatar? No? Ok, then, what does my name mean? Mongolian Chess on a lump of land? I highly doubt I'll be naming any threads ch85us2001 sooner or later, either, and I have no idea what that's supposed to mean...

[Lestat]

Oh well talk about making mountains out of anthills,

but just to add something:
There are about 15 to 20 regular SS posters. That's fairly large for a clique, and might even outnumber those people who do not post (regularly) in SS BUT post regularly in other threads.

Of the frequent posters in SS, most are also frequent posters in other threads and quite a few of them thread starters. Look at this list of threads starters (only the visible pages, not the archives):

DW: 26
RookieRookie: 12
Fiona: 9
Chus: 7
Luis: 6
Tony: 6
Vicsun: 6
Magrus: 5
Darzog: 4
Magelord: 4
Penguin_king: 4
Ravager: 4
Fable: 4
(and then a bunch with 3, 2 & 1)
So amongst them quite a few regulars of the SS.

I also did look briefly on the first page, most regular SS posters have also posted at least in a few other threads on that page. Quite a few of them in more than ten other threads and the others easily in five or more other threads, but there are a few exceptions, notably Juni, GoG & Fibey. And Slade & Athena are borderline... .

I think this compares favorable to the posting of those members whose name I see appear regularly in the “active users” box, but hardly do any posting. At least the SS posters do post.

Yes there a few people who mainly are on SYM to chitchat in the SS. But as far as I can see they are not the majority of the posters there and on the other hand, there are also quite a few lurkers around who do hardly anything more than those chitchatters to bring life to the board. So why single out those people at the SS?

[Fiona]

@ Lestat. I have already made a similar point, but it seems it is irrelevant. I now have no idea at all what is going on here.

[Ravager]

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]Oh, I had fun, but I missed out on a lot when I spent most of my time posting so much in one thread and not as much in another. Plus, do you think having close to half of my posts in one thread is something I want to carry around with me? It might be something you want, but I happened to find it, to tell you the truth, a little embarrasing.[/QUOTE]

Why does it really matter?
I'll be the first to admit I spend a lot of time on GB + SYM, probably more than I should, but I could never care less about what threads I posted on. I post where I like to, wherever that is.
Anyway, you have your opinion, I have mine. Which is basically the moral for this whole thread really, isn't it?

[Fiona]

[quote="Hill] Plus"]

I find that quite a startling statement. Who do you imagine either knows or cares?

[TonyMontana1638]

If something was clique-ish and I posted there, would I consider it cliquish? Besides, I felt a little clique-ish when I visited the SF, but not as much as I do whenever I post in the SS, however rare that is now. You were ignored because I felt it pointless to assume that only those in the clique, clan, or group, whatever you want to call it, can call it those names. I also put my hand heavily into the previous thread, and somewhat into the newer one. If it was OS up here saying the same thing, would it make that much of a difference for you?

So posting in the SS every now and then immediately causes you to become a member of that 'clan'? My point is neither you nor DW are ever there in the SS or even paying attention to it, so what evidence do you have to support 'clique-ish' comments? Yes I would, because she's there very frequently and is much more aware of its occupants' tendencies than you are.

I was responding to your other 'So What?' comment.

So what?

Oh, I had fun, but I missed out on a lot when I spent most of my time posting so much in one thread and not as much in another. Plus, do you think having close to half of my posts in one thread is something I want to carry around with me? It might be something you want, but I happened to find it, to tell you the truth, a little embarrasing.

The point is that I don't see why it should be embarassing: you were posting where you wanted to at the time. Who's judging you? Who do you think honestly cares?
Also what Rav and Fiona said.

However, I promise to stop being so dramatic.

Thank you.:laugh:

I thought that activity was the problem, not threads made... perhaps I just missed something.

Well making threads is an example of activity: maybe not the best indicator but one nevertheless.

A person's name and thread name is different. For example, how about we name a thread Hill-Shatar? No? Ok, then, what does my name mean? Mongolian Chess on a lump of land? I highly doubt I'll be naming any threads ch85us2001 sooner or later, either, and I have no idea what that's supposed to mean...

Hill, very nature of analyzing names that people pick because they sound cool, is pointless. Ravager's point in naming it the "Succeeder Stronghold" was because it sounded cool, and made tongue-in-cheek references to the two other famous postfarm threads that anticipated it: not because he intended it to be taken in a literal sense. The literal meaning of your name is about as relevant as the SS's. Don't be making any Nazi quips either.

[Lestat]

I'm just wondering aloud here, but ain't the problem really that apart from DW and some semi-oldies like hill, ikky and luis there are hardly any old-timers that really interact with some of us newer ones. Yeah, fable & xandax post occiasionally in the more serious threads, but hardly have any "social" contacts with the newbies, and CE might post occasionnally in a scientific thread, but again few social contacts with the new people.

And so on and so on.

Sorry but if the bunch of newbies gets together in a thread, can you blame 'em?

[Lestat]

I'm just wondering aloud here, but ain't the problem really that apart from DW and some semi-oldies like hill, ikky and luis there are hardly any old-timers that really interact with some of us newer ones. Yeah, fable & xandax post occiasionally in the more serious threads, but hardly have any "social" contacts with the newbies, and CE might post occasionnally in a scientific thread, but again few social contacts with the new people.

And so on and so on.

Sorry but if the bunch of newbies gets together in a thread, can you blame 'em?

[Hill-Shatar]

That is possibly the first time I've ever seen an unintentional 8 posts in a row.

Anyway, you have your opinion, I have mine. Which is basically the moral for this whole thread really, isn't it?

W-ell, the bump was more on the reason why SYM was dying...

So posting in the SS every now and then immediately causes you to become a member of that 'clan'? My point is neither you nor DW are ever there in the SS or even paying attention to it, so what evidence do you have to support 'clique-ish' comments? Yes I would, because she's there very frequently and is much more aware of its occupants' tendencies than you are.

I was only the second heaviest poster in the SF for how long before Chus passed me? I used to read every post in the SS until about three weeks ago, around the time Darzog was still settling in. I made no move to say that all posters there are immediately part of a clan.

As for your point, the only problem with it is similar (and no, I am not pushing upon you something like the word following, but rather fondness) to those who are addicted, as they never have a problem according to themselves, but other people might point it out. Those people can't point it out, because dear Mr. Addictive decides that since they don't smoke, or whatever, that they can't say whether it is or not.

Besides caring whether or not it's a clan, perhaps going back to how this somehow relates to the now warped original topic might be a good idea? The one where it's based are slow threads and one heavy thread?

I find that quite a startling statement. Who do you imagine either knows or cares?

I don't feel like scanning 50 pages of posts in the SF (nor, thanks to a new database error, can I access the search function), but I remember three or four members taunting Rav and I for having the highest posts in the SF. I do believe you were one of them. Along with that, people will oft compare your posts to one or a series of threads, like Ik's comment to Ravager above. Also, I find that people who post in a certain type of thread tend to be characterized by it, especially since there was a lot of serious posts of the SF's content, such as an example set by Aegis above. Indirect or not, it relates directly to me, and I find that unsettling.

Frankly, I'm still surprised that so many people really care for one open thread at all. Close it, make another. Close it, make another. Close it, what difference does it make? It'll all still exist in the thread directory, and the new one will have exactly the same content.

Well making threads is an example of activity: maybe not the best indicator but one nevertheless.

Really, I don't see how threads can even closely resemble activity when members like I have one for every 240 posts or so. Posting all over the place is more of a show of activity, IMO.

Hill, very nature of analyzing names that people pick because they sound cool, is pointless. Ravager's point in naming it the "Succeeder Stronghold" was because it sounded cool, and made tongue-in-cheek references to the two other famous postfarm threads that anticipated it: not because he intended it to be taken in a literal sense. The literal meaning of your name is about as relevant as the SS's. Don't be making any Nazi quips either.

I made no argument as to word's meaning in a thread title, I found it slightly strange for a person to compare a person's name to the thread's name, as I posted above. Geez, looks like I'm going to have to rebuild my posts tommorrow to actually show my position.

semi-oldies like hill

Ravager's been in SYM longer than me, not counting lurking in '01-'02. I'm more of a IRL-busy n00b.

Sorry but if the bunch of newbies gets together in a thread, can you blame 'em?

No, but when the 2 thread series goes on for 50,000 posts, then I just think a more shorter thread approach might be appropriate. Otherwise, making random threads like A Short View to History or whatever it was and The Temple for Ladies of SYM are much more interesting for me and perhaps new posters going through SYM.

Rather, someone make a Newbies Introduce Yourself Here! thread or something so they can break the ice nice and easily.

[dragon wench]

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]Rather, someone make a Newbies Introduce Yourself Here! thread or something so they can break the ice nice and easily.[/QUOTE]

A lot of forums use this idea, and I think it is a very good one. We already have the Anatomy thread, granted, but that does not allow for spam, for obvious reasons.

I think that an introductions thread where newcomers post and are welcomed in an interactive way could work extremely well, providing that the thread doesn't lose its focus by turning into the equivalent of a chatroom.

[dj_venom]

[QUOTE=dragon wench]I know this might seem insignificant, but I think it carries some weight. let's look at the name "Succeeder Stronghold.." You seem literate and intelligent to me, so I'm sure you know that "stronghold," denotes a type of fortress. [/QUOTE]

Rav beat me to this, but I'm going to say it again. Heathen Citadel. Now to me, that reads as those people who have gotten into fights with the Church should hide there, as it is a strong and fortified building. It seems if I want to post in the thread, I have to be come an outlaw... who wants to do that? We're getting a bit nit-picky here.

[QUOTE=dragon wench]Moreover, the atmosphere, whether intentional or not *is* cliquish. This is what happens when a group of people, many of whom rarely post elsewhere, continually meet in the same place. You foster an intimate sense of familiarity that does not extend to those who post there less often. A history builds up, in-family jokes are a part of daily conversation. This is a natural and inevitable evolution. One that is amplified greatly if the said thread is never ending.[/QUOTE]

If you seem excluded... POST IN THE THREAD.

I posted in SYM Riddle thread first. I might post in serious threads but the spam ones, a no no for me. Then Hill sent me the pm, encouraging me to spam. So I gave it a go. I was welcomed, found it fun, and continued. The only reason I was accepted as it seems to be, was because I actually talk there.

Now DW, I know you've posted a lot of spam over the time, I've often seen you discussing something with someone in the Heathen Citadel. But why won't you come and talk in the SS? We would treat you the same, you're a veteran, you deserve the respect.

All I can say, if you're afraid of the SS, and think you don't fit in... maybe that's because you haven't tried.

@Lestat: Thinking aloud? Next time think in your head, you might not post that many then.

And one more thing, in the post count, the two main anti-SS people, Hill and DW have a combined post count of 243 in there. Out of all the posts in there, that equates to 1.4%. That's not a very big stake for the people considering themselves experts.

And sorry if it seems I am targeting either of you, I'm not on purpose, I am just trying to make a point.

[dragon wench]

You don't need to post in a thread to know something about it.... You'd be surprised how often I've lurked.

I also find that I don't have the time or inclination to wade five or more pages back just to join a conversation. Okay, maybe that is a slight exageration... But, there was certainly a time when spam did move almost that quickly in the SS.

In addition... I just find the atmosphere stifling.


But much of why I don't post in the SS should already be clear from my previous posts on the subject.

[ik911]

I don't post in the SF/SS because I've had experience with the HC, which was not as fast as either, but too fast for me. I used to wade through all 3 pages, actually read all the replies and try to write something, but it was too much "work" for me, because it was mostly reading other people's chats. And that's fine, but I'm not interested in that. And that's fine too, but it's the reason I won't venture to the SF/SS.

[dj_venom]

Guide to Spamming:

Enter the thread. Then choose your method of greeting (Hi, Hello, Morning etc.), followed by words indicating who you are greeting (Everyone, <person>, lurkers etc.).

Then people will reply to that post.

Then you can pretty quickly pick up what is happening.

I rarely read pages back, at most one if I'm completely lost.

Just give it a try, and imagine it is the Heathen Citadel.

- On a positive note, it seems that the forums are back, and posts are being recorded.

EDIT: Nope, I was wrong, still getting the errors, and the SS won't refresh.. I'm sure the rest of you are happy about that .

[Hill-Shatar]

And one more thing, in the post count, the two main anti-SS people, Hill and DW have a combined post count of 243 in there. Out of all the posts in there, that equates to 1.4%. That's not a very big stake for the people considering themselves experts.

It's a thread. Not the end of the world. My posts in the old one at a point was almost a quarter for a point, and I lurk a lot in the new one, but I never read back.

Where the hell did I say or Dw say that we were experts? Other than DW posting here for, what, five years, she has no experience in anything other than random pub threads, which is one thing I would wish to replace the SS.

[dj_venom]

You're saying all this stuff about it being a clan.

Therefore, one would assume you have had some experience with the thread, and know about it. So, one would make the link, you have some knowledge about it, making you an expert.

And to continue what you said, it's only a thread... so why are we making such a big deal over it.

[Hill-Shatar]

1. I was a heavy contributor in the last one and link in the current one. This gives me a bit of insight into long thread behavior.

2. No one can be an expert here unless they are trained in human psychology or forum social structures, which we aren't. By the same logic, I said nothing about any of you being experts either.

Finally, I said it was only a thread because it seemed that every single one of you are arguing against it's closure, considering the original post in this thread. It is the same for me, except that it is effecting forum image for new comer's and perhaps overall activity.

[dj_venom]

1. So if you were a contributor, were you part of 'the clan'? If you felt you were, then why was it you accepted it back then, but not now? If you felt you weren't, why are you labelling these as clans?

2. I am not talking expert in the trained sense, I am talking expert in the sense of you seeming to know the inner workings of the thread.

- - - - - -

If we want new members, yes, we will have to make the place hospitable for them. We do this by being as accepting as possible, and making it seem like a good place. So what is it, that new comers want... I'm posting a thread on this now.

[Luis Antonio]

I wish the clans back. Badly. Twas a good source of fun, always. And the summer barbeques ruled too.

[Greg.]

Not having the inclination to read through 15 pages of arguments, here is my two pence worth...

I am a relative newbie to SYM... I only started posting here more than the other 4 or 5 threads I post in during February... (Thanks Fiona - the only other Scot on the boards that I know off). Anyhoo, does that make me a newbie, seing as I've been a member longer than some members with 4 or 5 (i.e Rav) digit post counts?

Is SYM dying, or just relaxing a bit?

It will change... Get over it...

It would be slightly amusing if Rav came into this thread and told us how new members were posting too much in the Stronghold...