Typing Etiquette?

[dragon wench]

I can't say I fly into some kind of uncontrollable rage over it but the habit does bother me quite a lot.
Why? Because in most cases it is sheer sloppy laziness, and it conveys the impression that the poster doesn't really care very much about what they are writing. It also suggests, given the utter lack of effort put forth, that the individual isn't much interested in the people they are presumably addressing, and that implies rudeness. It is the equivalent of showing up to a job interview dressed in ripped jeans and a stained Tshirt. Sure, you are free to do so, but don't expect the potential employer to take you seriously.

Now, I want to make very clear that I am not referring to non native speakers or those who have some kind of disability that hinders writing. Almost everyone I've ever encountered for whom English is a second or third language tries very hard to make themselves understood, and often they succeed better far than native speakers.

[Siberys]

It also suggests, given the utter lack of effort put forth, that the individual isn't much interested in the people they are presumably addressing

My thoughts too, I treat writing sloppily as if it were a golden rule of sorts. Do unto others as you would want done to you, which if they write sloppy and don't really care, I'm gonna give a half-arsed answer to there question myself.

[Denethorn]

I find people who write in such a way simply annoying. I normally don't communicate with them, or if I do its in a simplified manner.

There was this thread, despite being locked down (justifiably so) really got me chuckling.

editted and deleted by Maharlika

@Denethorn: In as much as I share your sentiments, I would like to remind you that your last comment can be seen as outright flaming especially since you singled out a particular poster to emphasize your point.

-- Maharlika --

[Chanak]

Personally, I draw the annoyance line slightly beyond poor spelling and improper grammar. I am not particularly piqued by a lack of mastery in this area. Granted, one's spelling and grammar - regardless of the language being used - leaves a strong impression upon readers, one that certainly goes far in the image the author projects. However, there is a certain intangible quality present in an individual's writing that can be detected and measured if one is as honest and true in print as they are in person.

Perhaps that is a bit of the artistic touch, which tends to bleed out of everyone so gifted, no matter the medium they use. No matter. I tend to avoid criticizing other people's spelling and grammar for two reasons: first and foremost, they did not appoint me their teacher/instructor; and secondly, I shudder at the thought of the slew of errors present in my own writing.

[Faberge]

I can’t claim to have noticed any deterioration in the common use of English on game forums. It is as bad as it has always been. Of course the older members seem to get better at English as time passes by, but often the new and younger members are not as good at the correct English. As education and etc. have already been mentioned and processed, I do not see a reason to be an echo. Yet somehow I still became one.

Humph, I once used to be an active member of a forum with a correct grammar rule. It wasn’t an English forum, but back then most of the user there preferred as correct grammar as possible and it was installed as one the forum rules. The moderators and sometimes even the administration send personal messages to encourage people using correct grammar with helpful tips of how to improve their own writing. It worked for start, I admit, but as the forums got more and more popular it became terribly frustrating thing to do. These personal messages didn’t have the desired effect and thought of correcting the grammar mistakes by themselves was clearly absurd as it would have required resources and time not available for the moderators.

Eventually they gave up the correct grammar rule. There still is an encouragement for the use of correct grammar, but reading those forums is not the same as reading a well written novel. Once in a while there pops up a new topic about the possibility of returning the old correct grammar rule. But I don’t think it will return anytime very soon.

I guess I could also tell you that my native language isn’t a difficult language, you ask it from any linguistic and they will most likely tell you the same thing. Almost every word is spelled as it is pronounced and the grammar rules are almost mathematical. While there is a joke among those who study English describing it as; “To learn English is to learn exception’s, exception’s, exceptions.”

I cannot completely agree with the laziness, to me it would seem to be more likely due to the writer’s young age. And my comment isn’t about one’s maturity or immaturity, just the possible amount of time they might have had to study a language or two.

[Siberys]

I half agree with that, Faberge, well said.

However, there is a difference in these sentences-

"How bout we go too the mall beefour it rains?"
And,
How bout we go 2 da mall B4 it rains?"


One, I can see as just a pure age/grammar issue, it's legible but still has errors.

The other, well that is most definitely lazyness. It's lazy that they don't even try to spell the word even if they know they don't know how, but instead use numbers to make sounds in a word.

I've seen so many posts like the latter sentence above, and rarely any posts like the former above, if it was the first, I could honestly not care less, they have a difficult time in english and/or just don't know how to spell a certain word, happens to all of us, but the latter is what ticks me and many people off.

[dragon wench]

The other, well that is most definitely lazyness. It's lazy that they don't even try to spell the word even if they know they don't know how, but instead use numbers to make sounds in a word.

I've seen so many posts like the latter sentence above, and rarely any posts like the former above, if it was the first, I could honestly not care less, they have a difficult time in english and/or just don't know how to spell a certain word, happens to all of us, but the latter is what ticks me and many people off.

Agreed. I honestly don't expect people to sound as though they've just swallowed the Oxford English Dictionary, nor do I expect them to write like some kind of poet laureate.
But, it is nice when they at least attempt to employ standard English, and can compose a sentence that uses proper capitalization of "I" and does not contain things like "B4."
Spelling and grammar errors can happen for any number of reasons. But as already stated, the above is nothing other than slovenly writing that indicates a couldn't care less attitude.

[Magelord648]

I hate it when people speek in shortened english. My friend has actually started saying soz instead of sorry. I have a go at him every time he does it. When you think about it, people who speak like this are already breaking the rule that you must speak English. Try looking the words up in a dictionary. If someone posts a question in text language or leet I usually tell them to speak English in my reply.

[Philos]

Many good points brought up

DW,
your

But, it is nice when they at least attempt to employ standard English, and can compose a sentence that uses proper capitalization of "I" and does not contain things like "B4."

So very true!!
Brought back to mind an issue I dealt with during my first year of teaching. I taught science and history (odd combination I know). On one of the first history tests I gave I had a few "fill in the blank" type questions. I am looking over a test and I see "idk" in one of the blanks. I called the student up and asked what they meant. They said, "Oh that means, 'I don't know'". I shook my head in disbelief, bad enough to abbreviate it but they didn't even capitalize the "I'. I put the whole class on notice that IDK was NOT an acceptable answer and that on future tests anyone using it would not just miss the question but also lose a point per IDK. I explained you should try a guess with that type of question or just leave it blank if you have absolutely no idea. Sounds a bit hard looking back now, but it really was just a lazy habit they had developed. Sometimes encouraging kids to avoid sloppiness in little things helps develop more attentiveness in the big truly important things.

[Magrus]

@ Philos, I do not think that is hard on the students at all. You are being paid to teach them. Even if you aren't their English teacher, it is your job to see they are learning properly. It makes perfect sense to penalize such lazyness, even if they do not understand it now. What if someone put "idk" on a job application? Ha. I would not be able to handle that if I were interviewing someone. I think I would just laugh and point towards the door. :laugh:

[Chimaera182]

At my university, they do penalize you for improper spelling/grammar. Our teachers urge us to take our papers to this place called the Writing Center for Excellence (or some such) and have them reviewed first before submitting to professors. And our professors will mark your paper up if you misspell or use incorrect grammar (yes, I may be an English major so that's to be expected, but the same is also true in my history classes).

[Philos]

@Magrus

Your

I do not think that is hard on the students at all. You are being paid to teach them. Even if you aren't their English teacher, it is your job to see they are learning properly. It makes perfect sense to penalize such lazyness, even if they do not understand it now.

Thanks, you're right and that was indeed my logic. Sometimes when you look back on something it is easy to judge yourself more harshly.

@Chimaera,
Same was true for me for my college courses that involved any paper writing. My copy of the "College English Handbook" (Forget the exact name) was worn out and falling apart by the time I graduated. Never could keep all the rules for commas and semicolons, etc. straight. I sure didn't want to lose points over something that I could help. :laugh:

[dragon wench]

@Philos,
I agree with Mag. I wish that more teachers insisted on correct usage. Colleges and universities should not need to have writing centres (excepting those geared toward the needs of foreign students). Rather, something as basic as proper spelling and grammar should be taught in the school system, and it should be taught well.
From what I saw while working as a TA, it seems that for many students the first year of university ends up being a crash course in skills they really *ought* to have learned in high school:
*Writing
*The ability to think critically and analytically
*Organisation and good study habits

I'm presently considering picking up the few courses I'd need to teach secondary school... If I end up doing such, my students will likely hate me!

[Philos]

@DW

I did try (and I think usually succeeded) to develop good habits in them.

Your

skills they really *ought* to have learned in high school:
*Writing
*The ability to think critically and analytically
*Organisation and good study habits

It is quite disturbing to me to see these vital skills slipping by the wayside. In order to warehouse and process the kids in overcrowded classes (and I think to some part laziness by school districts and teachers), more and more tests are done using the standardized multiple choice style. No actual writing required. By using a template overlay the teacher grades the test in a matter of seconds. To me this is opening the door for extremely easy cheating and minimizes the very skills you mention (and I absolutely agree) as being crucial. It encourages students to study only well enough to be able to "pick out" the best answer and not necessarily gain true comprehension of the material. Lends itself to rote memorization of facts (the lowest form of learning as I was taught) but not necessarily the ability to correlate those facts. Definitely does not develop their ability to write and express themselves. Proponents of them say it is not "efficient" to have a teacher review all the answers one by one. It is little wonder that fewer people can type or communicate effectively. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Best wishes for your classes. Students will always grouse, but they'll come back to thank you. Many of mine did a couple years down the road.