Lion Mutilates 42 Midgets in Cambodian Ring-Fight

blake · Post by **blake** » Sat May 28, 2005 10:40 am

I laughed, only for the fact that it seemed to unbelievable. I doubt 42 average sized men could take on a lion. A lion knows only what it needs, and if it senses danger it will attack and do everything it can to survive. It doesn't have fear or hesitate like a human would do.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sat May 28, 2005 11:12 am

[QUOTE=Magrus]No, I don't think so. Early groups of humans hunted, and killed their foods themselves. They fought off predators. The repressed instincts involved with that is what causes this kind of behavior IMO. If you have the instincts to hunt and kill, you will have bloodlust. All creatures who prey on other creatures have it. Yet, those that hunt for their food have no reason to be cruel to others for the simple sake of cruelty. They release those urges while getting what they need to survive. [/quote]

I don't think so either, but like you I think the aggression and the feeling of rewards from aggressive behaviour, comes from a time when early humans needed these traits in order to survive. I do however not think this aggression is always there, and I certainly don't think the feeling cruelty is entertaining (emotially rewarding) is always there either, I think they trigger under certain circumstances, just like stress. In a society where people don't need to very stressed they will not miss it since it is not an innate need (like sex), it's response pattern aimed to deal with a specific type of situation. I view this bloodthirst in a similar way.

[quote="VonDondu]Like when people like Sytze say it makes them laugh very hard? [/quote]

Yes.

Although we must bear in mind that some people laugh out of shock"]

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sat May 28, 2005 11:45 am

[QUOTE=blake]I doubt 42 average sized men could take on a lion. A lion knows only what it needs, and if it senses danger it will attack and do everything it can to survive. It doesn't have fear or hesitate like a human would do.[/QUOTE]
In addition to mental attitude, the lion's anatomy and combat skills also give it tremendous advantages over humans. An elephant or a few water buffalo might be able to take on a single lion, but any creature that doesn't have inhuman size or strength or a tough hide doesn't stand a chance.

blake · Post by **blake** » Sat May 28, 2005 12:11 pm

Exactly, the ignorance that must have been present in those conversations must have been brain numbing.

Denethorn · Post by **Denethorn** » Sat May 28, 2005 4:16 pm

)[QUOTE=blake]Exactly, the ignorance that must have been present in those conversations must have been brain numbing.[/QUOTE]

More like the lust for wealth and victory must have been brain numbing. Although I think it's unfair to say the 'midgets' deserved their death and mutilation for money, we have no idea what sort of pressures they must be under etc (a midget wanting respect for defeating a lion, in a way I don't blame him).

To blame death on stupidty is overly cruel I think.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Sat May 28, 2005 4:24 pm

Overly cruel like tearing someone from their home and attacking it when it's done nothing whatsoever to you?

Denethorn · Post by **Denethorn** » Sat May 28, 2005 4:28 pm

Are you a vegetarian?

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Sat May 28, 2005 4:38 pm

Nope, and I love beef. I live off of beef and chicken. Definately not.

However, killing for food is entirely different than killing for entertainment and money IMO. One is survival, the other is simply cruel and unnecessary.

The problem is the fact humanity in general seems to feel superior to every other species. Like they have some divine right to do whatever they want to any creature not human. Like I said above, if that lion had been a man, dragged from the bed he shared with his wife, out of the house he shared with his family and set into a ring and attacked by 42 trained fighting midgets people would riot over it. A wild animal though? Nope, just a dumb beast that brutally killed 28 short people.

In my eyes, there's no difference whatsoever. That lion had no choice in the matter. He did what he had to do to survive. Those midgets, didn't do what they were doing to survive. If they had been thinking of survival they wouldn't have set foot NEAR that lion. They were thinking of cash and their stupid pride, hurting that lion in process. As I said above, again, I'm sure someone just shot him until he died too to save the injured and mauled fighter's who were still kicking if the remaining fighter's didn't kill him themselves. Those midget's went into that fight, by CHOICE. That lion, was caged and dropped into the middle of that fight and FORCED to fight for his life. That's self defense, those people got what they bargained for. A fight to the death for honor, is a fight to the death. They got what they deserved. The ONLY one I feel sorry for in that fight is that lion. His freedom and life were twisted for greed.

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Sun May 29, 2005 1:48 am

[QUOTE=VonDondu]Like when people like Sytze say it makes them laugh very hard?

[/QUOTE]
Ahh, yes, it's easy to assume that, isn't it?

I'm sure you've all laughed about someone's stupidity or idiocy. I mentioned I found the midgets' reasoning for fighting quite idiotic. That was funny. I never said that the (animal) cruelty that followed was funny. IMO there's a world of difference between finding the reasons behind their actions funny, than to find the actions themselves funny.
For reference, I even said this:
[QUOTE=Sytze]It's just too sad for words; 42 midgets against one Lion, half of them die, a quarter gets...[/QUOTE]

Disbelieve? Most certainly. Shocked about the consequences? Not really. Cynical? Perhaps a bit. Even though defending ones honour is a worthy goal, worth dying for is a second.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sun May 29, 2005 4:12 am

Sytze, I was only kidding. I was amused by the, uh, irony as well.

I'm not particularly amused by what happened to the midgets and the lion, but to the extent that I was amused, I guess what amused me the most was the faith that the midgets had in themselves. I feel the same way whenever I think about Don Quixote or see anyone else metaphorically "tilting at windmills". I feel sorry for them, but what they're doing is such a bad idea, I have to stifle a laugh.

The midgets were defending their honor--I figure that was their primary motivation. But they were also overconfident in their own abilities. Even worse, when they saw their comrades fall, the still possessed the hope that they could survive, if not win. Hope makes people do futile things, like staying in bad relationships or tilting at windmills or getting into a pit fight with a lion. A pity.

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Sun May 29, 2005 4:24 am

I figured I was on the 'wrong' end of your smiley, especially after CE's serious answer.

No worries though.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun May 29, 2005 7:17 am

[QUOTE=Magrus]The problem is the fact humanity in general seems to feel superior to every other species. Like they have some divine right to do whatever they want to any creature not human. Like I said above, if that lion had been a man, dragged from the bed he shared with his wife, out of the house he shared with his family and set into a ring and attacked by 42 trained fighting midgets people would riot over it. A wild animal though? Nope, just a dumb beast that brutally killed 28 short people.
[/QUOTE]

Complete agreement. When my wife and I went to Bulgaria roughly 13 years ago, we were astonished to see men still leading trained bears around the countryside. Periodically, the men would stop, and the bears would be pulled to their hind feet to "dance" for spectators, in exchange for money. The shape these animals were in was shocking, often with matted fur, wounds, bald patches all over where healing had been poor, etc. They looked undernourished, and we couldn't help thinking that one element of their "training" consisted of reminding the bear who provided their meals, whenever they felt like it.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Tue May 31, 2005 12:33 am

Changed thread title...

... the original one left a bad taste in my mouth.

ik911 · Post by **ik911** » Tue May 31, 2005 3:29 am

[QUOTE=Maharlika]... the original one left a bad taste in my mouth.

[/QUOTE]
You weren't supposed to eat it. Stop sticking everything you see in your mouth.

About the bears: They become completely brainwashed and stupid. I've seen something on tv about a bear they 'saved' from it's master, but that bear was acting completely unnatural. Irreparable psychological damage.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Tue May 31, 2005 6:46 am

[QUOTE=ik911]
About the bears: They become completely brainwashed and stupid. I've seen something on tv about a bear they 'saved' from it's master, but that bear was acting completely unnatural. Irreparable psychological damage.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately you're not wrong. They've been trained to act like that, either for a reward or to avoid pain, and those patterns would be retained if they're to be released.

In Brazil, as we have lotsa people with native animals at home, there are plenty of training centers, where those animals are really trained to live for themselves. Often, however, the patterns are so burned on the poor animal mind that recovery is impossible.

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Tue May 31, 2005 7:29 am

Once again we're all victims of mass media...

Alas, it seems that this story was just too good to be true. Didn't anyone else notice that the original url isn't a news.bbc.co.uk url?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4566079.stm

Scroll down to the "Grumble of the Week"

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Tue May 31, 2005 7:47 am

Grr, got me all worked up over nonsense?

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Tue May 31, 2005 7:54 am

[QUOTE=Magrus]Grr, got me all worked up over nonsense?

[/QUOTE]
Sorry buddy, it looks like it. The original url was newturfers or something, right? That looked a little out of place, so I looked at the BBC site...

At least you know you won't back down from something you believe in Mag, no matter if you're right or wrong

! I often use that logic myself- saying something like, "hey, since when have I been one to back down from a bad idea?" has caused a lot of interesting situations.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Tue May 31, 2005 7:58 am

As I said, my first reaction was that the article had to be a joke. I'm glad that's all it was.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:06 am

Yeah, this kind of thing wouldn't surprise me at all though to be honest. People in general just have this view everything around them is their's by some divine right and screw anything else living that gets in their way you know? Like "I'll cut down this tree because it's in my way". Well, what if that tree is someone's home? It's just idiotic arrogance to think that way IMO. There's nothing that rationalizes the thought that one human is more important than one ant or a cat or bird, or whatever. Just human arrogance.