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Post by Scayde »

Originally posted by Tybaltus
I wish I lived in Canada (Maybe like Toronto, or some town in southern Canada).....

Just thought Id backup my friends up north with some Canadian pride from an American :cool:

MmmmGood idea...YEA CANADA :D :D :D


edit:I read the history (re:the following post) and it's great to be patriotic. I think everyone should be :) ...But the "burn, burn, burn, thing still hurt my feelings. Sorry... :(

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Post by Aegis »

Originally posted by Scayde
:o I don't get it...I thought that Canada and the US are friends Why would you want to burn down the White House??? :( :( :(
Well, the story behind the song is this. During the War of 1812, when the Americans tried to take the British colony that was to become Canada, they succeeded in crossing the river, and made it into lower Ontario. While dodgin Iroquis and Colonists, the American invaders managed to make it to our base of operations during the war, that being Fort York (Later became part of Toronto, the most prominant city in Canada, yet not our capitol :rolleyes: ). So, in reprisal, we sent a small force of troops down south, avoiding most major military forces, as they would crush us with numbers alone. We made it Washington. So, with revenge for Fort York in mind, we burned down the White House (Well, half of it, they had to repaint it, though :D ). anyway, thats the story behind the song.
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Post by Gwalchmai »

:rolleyes: @ Aegis

It seems to me that a Moderator, even of a smaller forum, should hold himself to a higher standard and not stoop to such puerile ranting. I would think that you could keep your complaints on a civil level and only within PMs so that you are not seen to belittle or diminish the authority of your fellow moderators. After your public showing of disrespect, do you really think that the moderators of this forum could possibly come to change their position?

Your actions are not becoming of your status as a moderator. Mr. Sleep, T’lainya, and Fable make the judgments they see fit in this forum. It’s a hard job and they deserve our respect.

You seem to be flying in the face of that respect by putting some of the potentially offensive ‘lyrics’ in your signature. Are you advocating the burning of the White House?

Calling Yshania a liar for simply stating her opinion is beyond the pale.
That there; exactly the kinda diversion we coulda used.
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Post by Aegis »

I realize that Moderating SYM is a difficult job, but the job is not done properly when I don't get a chance to respond to someones questions about a thread before it gets closed.

For the signature, no, I don't see how I am "flying in the face of respect" by qouting the song. It is meant for humourous value. Also, it is my signature, and I am entitled to place whatever I feel in my signature, as is my freedom of speech.

Now, I feel as I've been quite civil in my arguments against the closing. If I really wanted to, I could've resulted to childish name calling. Instead, I have civilly defended myself, and my thread. My responses to T was because of the condesending nature in which she was responding to my posts. She didn't seem to read the part about me already PM'ing Sleep about, and that my initial post in this thread was thanking Grunt for his support.

I personally do not see the problem with the lyrics to this song. Everyone I have spoken to in person (both Canadian and American) have gotten a big kick out of it, and have recognized for it's comedic value. Did it at any point say that was my personal view of the Americans? No. Am I advocating the burning of the White House? No! I'm qouting a song. Since when was that against the rules!

As for the comment I made to Ysh, I stand by my statement, but the fact that she can claim that she would not be a little upset by one of her threads closing if it were deemed "insulting" but she didn't see it that way, even she didn't voice her thoughts. I, on the other, have lain down on my back too often in life to no longer be vocal about these things, in both real life, and on these forums. I don't feel that I was given just reason for the thread closing, nor even enough time to respond, thus I am outraged. It is a clear violation of the public nature of these forums.

As I've said before, in closing this one thread, a statement is being made that any thread or post that in anyway says something that may be the least bit offending to a small amount, will have to be closed, otherwise we enter into a sort of hypocracy.

In the past, people have posted comments that I have been incredably insulted by regarding Canada, or other such things, but never once have I seen them deleted, or closed off, even if I voiced my thoughts on it. I have also seen it done towards other nations. The thing is though, We recognize those, for the most part, as jocular humour, which is what my thread was all about, yet was closed. For someone not to obviously see it as a farce, they must not be thinking quite clear at the time, as it is pretty straight forward in it's intent.

Also, never accuse me of stooping to puerile ranting. I may be one of the younger members of the board, but I do not rant. Everything I post in a serious matter is always well thought out, and orgainized before I type it.
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Post by Ode to a Grasshopper »

Geez, @Aegis, just chill out. I saw it was a joke, but to be honest it wasn't that good a joke (not because it was anti-American, but simply because it wasn't very funny), it's no big loss.
It could also be argued that the thread was closed because there wasn't really a point to it and none were developing, it's happened with other threads before.
Another point, in a board with such a diverse spread of cultures as we have here things that offend some people will doubtless come up, and be kept. The 9/11 thread is a good example of that, people on both sides of the debate, and even a few who were not on either side, found things that caused them offence. It's unavoidable. If ever people step too far out of line the mods rein them back in, simple as that.

So far my biggest problem with the way things have gone is Ysh being called a liar, is this really the way we want to behave to our friends (We are, for the most part, friends here, no?)? I tease half the board incessantly and they tease me back, but that's all in fun and even then we don't insult each other.
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Post by Aegis »

@Ode: I'm no longer concerned at whether or not people found it funny. My concern is the fact that is was closed off without first waiting for me to respond to Sleep, without me being able to even defend it before being closed, and before someone politely asked me to change, edit or delete it. I feel that is censorship. As for it going no where, well how could we even tell?! It had barely even been an active thread for 12 hours, and those 12 hours were during the usual lull time of the board!

Anyway, I don't feel I have to go into anymore detail on the defense of the thread itself, as I have covered it quite extensivly, and repeatdly already. As for the Ysh thing, well I have explained that too. And yes, I do happen to consider many of you my friends, and I do trust many of you.;

One thing though, if comments have obviously been made in threads, such as the 9/11 one, that were strong enough to cause offense to someone, why was that thread not closed down? Why were few of those threads based upon religion not closed down? From my stance, it seems very hypocritical, as I have stated numerous times before. Also, why is it when a Pro-America thread is spawned, why are they never closed down, even though they can be very aggresive in their patriotism.
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Post by dragon wench »

As for the comment I made to Ysh, I stand by my statement, but the fact that she can claim that she would not be a little upset by one of her threads closing if it were deemed "insulting" but she didn't see it that way, even she didn't voice her thoughts.


A tad flippant don't you think...?

The last time I checked the word "sorry" was included in any standard Canadian dictionary.
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Post by Xandax »

Originally posted by Aegis
<snip>
Also, it is my signature, and I am entitled to place whatever I feel in my signature, as is my freedom of speech.
<snip>
Just remember, at a board owned by Buck - he decides what you are permitted to state, as in regards of "your free speech". There is only the free speech that he allows, it is his "house", and we are visitors.

If you have a problem with the mod.s closing the thread, take it up with Buck instead of taking it to the public.
The mods. do as they see fit to keep "the peace" (I know I do in NwN forums) and as long as Buck agrees with the actions of the mods., everything is fine, if not, he will take action.
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Post by Minerva »

@Aegis: There are many threads closed or even deleted. particularly immediately after Sep 11...

You should realise the difference from your post and other debate threads: They are debates threads. The original poster usually post with "I think...", "What is your opinion?" and so on, to invite other people to debate/discuss, and give others idea what his/her intention is. If the debate themselves get out of hands is another matter; they may get closed or may survive. On the other hand, you have just posted the song. I wasn't sure what to reply, because I wasn't sure if you were serious or joking.

You keep saying you have sent PM to Mr Sleep, but have you sent to T'lainya and fable as well? There are three moderators AND Buck who can close threads in the SYM. If you need to explain your intention after you posted, then why didn't you tell us at the very beginning? There'd been no problem in the first place.
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Post by Mr Sleep »

I will not comment directly on this subject at the moment (if at all).

What i will say is if anyone has a problem with a thread or any of my conduct then PM the moderators, there is nothing gained by complaining in the thread about another member or the actual thread content. I have never had one complaint about Canada in my PM box, in fact there has been about 5 "report post to moderator" messages in the last month, am i then responsible for all the insulting things that are said and left? I have a life outside GB i don't have the time to read every single post, i can't mediate everything, all of the moderators are the same in that they don't have the time to read every thread, we try but it is up to the rest of the community as well to bring (possible) problems to our attention.
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Post by Maharlika »

This is another COMM and run...

...as I get back shortly to my RL responsibiilities...

...I've been made aware through some of my SYMian buddies about this and I wasn't even online...

...my point?

It pains me and the others to see this is actually happening. I actually have to check out sym just for this.

I hope that the "silence" in this thread means that everyone concerned has taken this to pm. ;) :)

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Post by Sojourner »

Ouch, tasteless song. The Battle of Washington D.C.
There's nothing a little poison couldn't cure...

What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, ... to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security.
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Post by Bloodstalker »

Posted by Aegis

For the signature, no, I don't see how I am "flying in the face of respect" by qouting the song. It is meant for humourous value. Also, it is my signature, and I am entitled to place whatever I feel in my signature, as is my freedom of speech.


I understand, and supprt freedom of speech, but I would like to state something that you may have not thought of. I read the entire original post, and personally, I did not get offended, for the most part because I know you and have taken a few well meaning shots at Canada at you and you have never taken offense. I figured, if I can dish it out, I can take it, and as I know you, I felt you were not making anything other than a humrous statement.

However, here is something to at least consider. There are many new members registering here every day, and these new members do not know you. The sig you have currently could be taken as insulting by those people. Mind you, I don't have a roblem with it, but many probably will who are new to the board.

As I said, I support your right to say whatever you want, but I also think you may want to consider the fact that the results of this sig may have the affect of generating a lot of flames and bad feeling from people who are just coming to the board. My concern is not s much over an issue of patriotism or freedom, but for the general atmosphere of these forums. It seems to me that such a sig, even taken from a satirical song, could be construed as offensive. There is nothing in the sig to validate it as an attempt at humor, and it doesn't have the supporting context that the original post had. While I do not demand a change, or get angry or upset, I do ask you to think of the ramifications it could have here at GB.
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Post by Yshania »

*sigh* @Aegis, since you do not deem it important enough to take to PM, but continue to defend your opinion of me publically I need to recap to answer:
Posted by Aegis

You know, if the situations were reversed, you would probably be just as peeved as I am.

Posted by Yshania

And regarding being "peeved" no I wouldn't, I do not put myself in that situation, it is not worth the angst.

Posted by Aegis

You can't say you wouldn't be peeved though. I know you are generally a person with strong opinions, and you like to be heard if you have a point to make, so by saying you wouldn't even be, in the slightest way, miffed about a closed thread is a lie straight to my face.

Posted by Aegis

As for the comment I made to Ysh, I stand by my statement, but the fact that she can claim that she would not be a little upset by one of her threads closing if it were deemed "insulting" but she didn't see it that way, even she didn't voice her thoughts


As I had already addressed your statement by responding I would not be peeved I believe I had voiced my thoughts succinctly. So now I will expand if it helps. Very simply, Aegis, if I thought that something I was about to post was - in your words - a matter well thought out, and orgainized before I type it, I would still err on the side of caution and not post it UNLESS I was sure it would not cause offense - even a tiny offense. If I then judged to proceed and post, then I would not be peeved that my thread had been closed or deleted - and if I had inadvertantly caused offence by my bad judgement, I would apologise to the persons involved. It is called taking responsibility for your actions. I would not rant publically at a single member, calling them a liar. Is that a concise enough answer for you? I think a smilie or a disclaimer may have avoided the initial misunderstanding.
Posted by Aegis

For the signature, no, I don't see how I am "flying in the face of respect" by qouting the song. It is meant for humourous value.


Appropriate humour? With 9/11 approaching?
Posted by Aegis

Also, never accuse me of stooping to puerile ranting. I may be one of the younger members of the board, but I do not rant. Everything I post in a serious matter is always well thought out, and orgainized before I type it.


So you have not ranted here? This has moved beyond your original post now, I take it all the comments you have made in this thread are as a result of mature consideration?

To be honest, Aegis, it does not matter to me that you called me a liar. Not really. I was surprised, that is all. I am only bothered by such name calling when the name-caller is someone who matters to me. I come to this board for fun and entertainment, not to get into fights with people. I have made some very good friends here, a few RL friends too. Life is too short to worry about those that may not like me. ;)
Posted by Minerva:

You should realise the difference from your post and other debate threads: They are debates threads. The original poster usually post with "I think...", "What is your opinion?" and so on, to invite other people to debate/discuss, and give others idea what his/her intention is. If the debate themselves get out of hands is another matter; they may get closed or may survive. On the other hand, you have just posted the song. I wasn't sure what to reply, because I wasn't sure if you were serious or joking.


I agree :)
Posted by Sojourner

Ouch, tasteless song. The Battle of Washington D.C.


Thanks for the link Sojourner :)
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Post by Yshania »

Finally:
Posted by Aegis

I realize that Moderating SYM is a difficult job, but the job is not done properly when I don't get a chance to respond to someones questions about a thread before it gets closed.
I disagree. The mods here do a fine job, I know for a fact you are not the only one who has not had the opportunity to respond before a thread is closed. The duties of the mod is to use their judgement, as you may know...
Posted by Aegis

Now, I feel as I've been quite civil in my arguments against the closing. If I really wanted to, I could've resulted to childish name calling.


Enough said :)
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Post by Nippy »

Well, this seems a bit un-like SYM to me, to be perfectly honest. Yes Aegis may have posted something wrong, whether that is the case or not we are going to come to a point where Aegis will stand up and say "I did not post anything wrong." Another member will say that he has and it will carry on that way. It's pointless. I suggest that this thread is stopped and we put an end to it, the thread contains no point now. All arguments are better to go to PM's and be ended and we should all stop arguing about it, firstly this is not like SYM to argue about a song and secondly I know both Ysh and Aegis I don't expect either to argue like this. Let's just leave it folks. :)
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Post by Tybaltus »

Originally posted by Nippy
Well, this seems a bit un-like SYM to me, to be perfectly honest. Yes Aegis may have posted something wrong, whether that is the case or not we are going to come to a point where Aegis will stand up and say "I did not post anything wrong." Another member will say that he has and it will carry on that way. It's pointless. I suggest that this thread is stopped and we put an end to it, the thread contains no point now. All arguments are better to go to PM's and be ended and we should all stop arguing about it, firstly this is not like SYM to argue about a song and secondly I know both Ysh and Aegis I don't expect either to argue like this. Let's just leave it folks. :)
You know I was thinking something similar around those lines. Im glad you said it, Nippy. I think this is just one giant headache and I consider Ysh and Aegis to be friendly people and my friends. So I must say that this is not exactly what I expected either. Bickering gets no where. Forgiveness leads to greener pastures. And if everyone believed in: "An eye for an eye", then we'd all be blind.
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Post by Nippy »

Thanks Tyb, it's been on mind for a little while...
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Post by RandomThug »

Yet to

I responded fiercely to your post because to me, IMHO, it was a direct insult to America. Sure you felt it was comedy and perhaps to some music it would seem obvius but to post a MUST READ thread and then only support it with a American Bashing line from an obviusly cheesy band. Exspecially with the fuel still lit pretty high from all the talk of Terrorism, Sept 11th and such. It was like going to a wake and talking crap about the dead person, while no one else does. Sure it would be funny at a roast but not unless others were in on it. I am pretty sure a line on the bottom of your post like "Aint that comedy?" would have ended this all first hand. But you left it, and didnt respond. Leaving us to have the impression you were sticking to your post. I have re wrote this post five times so far because I have so much to say but I find it already posted or rather useless. The fact is your thread (without your response) was nothing short of an Insult and attempt to provoke. Sure you didnt mean that but sometimes things happen like that, sometimes you get results you didnt bargain for. Don't complain, apologize.

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Post by Aegis »

Re: Yet to
Originally posted by RandomThug
The fact is your thread (without your response) was nothing short of an Insult and attempt to provoke. Sure you didnt mean that but sometimes things happen like that, sometimes you get results you didnt bargain for. Don't complain, apologize.

Thug
Must write again that I was unable to post a response, as I do not spend every waking minute on these forums?
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